Biodegradable "plastic" bags

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Tero
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Biodegradable "plastic" bags

Post by Tero » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:38 pm

At Trader Joe's the produce bags are, not sure of the material. You might be doing some good if they go the landfill. Otherwise not, they are just another type of plastic.

Materials
Most bags that are manufactured from plastic are made from corn-based materials, like polylactic acid blends. Biodegradable plastic bags are nowadays as strong and reliable as traditional (mostly polyethylene)-bags. Many bags are also made from paper, organic materials, or polycaprolactone.[2][3][4]

"The public looks at biodegradable as something magical," even though the term is broadly used, according to Ramani Narayan, a chemical engineer at Michigan State University in East Lansing, and science consultant to the Biodegradable Plastics Institute. "This is the most used and abused and misused word in our dictionary right now. In the Great Pacific garbage patch, biodegradable plastics break up into small pieces that can more easily enter the food chain by being consumed." [5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodegradable_bag
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Re: Biodegradable "plastic" bags

Post by Cunt » Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:53 pm

The 'canvas' bags we purchase have a sheet of plastic in the bottom, to keep it square and shaped. The bags themselves also contain plastic.

I wonder how many uses it takes, to match up with the thin disposable ones.

I remember when the 'Sky Is Falling' crowd threatened us with a tree-less earth, and switched us off paper bags and onto plastic.

I wonder if that industry has holdings in the bag manufacturing sector...
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Re: Biodegradable "plastic" bags

Post by Woodbutcher » Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:58 pm

Cotton bags take 170 times as much energy to produce as plastic, including cotton growing etc.
https://stanfordmag.org/contents/paper- ... r-reusable
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Re: Biodegradable "plastic" bags

Post by laklak » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:33 pm

Most consumer level eco-friendly stuff is bullshit, because the general public aren't engineers and don't look at the entire product life cycle. Either that or they don't fucking work. I bought some eco-warrior dish liquid because the sink empties directly into the water. It simply doesn't work, doesnt clean the dishes, doesn't disolve grease, nada zip zero. Went back to Dawn, the fish will just have to deal with it.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Biodegradable "plastic" bags

Post by Tero » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:08 pm

"Use vinegar" is their advice for the home. For every problem. It's natural! No chemicals!
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Re: Biodegradable "plastic" bags

Post by Cunt » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:11 pm

I use homeopathic vinegar on EVERYTHING!

Tero, would you like to purchase a huge amount of arsenic trioxide?

One of Canada's most contaminated sites is declaring this a difficult problem. If you decided you wanted to purchase it, it would solve a lot of problems.
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Re: Biodegradable "plastic" bags

Post by Tero » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:12 pm

Will it get rid of...politicians?
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Re: Biodegradable "plastic" bags

Post by laklak » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:17 pm

Vinegar, lemon juice, baking soda. If none of those work then just burn it.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Biodegradable "plastic" bags

Post by Cunt » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:39 pm

Tero wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:12 pm
Will it get rid of...politicians?
It's a contaminant, toxic pollutant. It would be too dangerous to move, even if you could find a reason to buy it.

If you can 'take care' of it, I think the planned budget for it is well over a billion bucks right now, so there is room for lee-way.

I know going to a cold place is a bit trying for an old guy, so to show I'm serious, I offer to shovel for you, when needed. (so you don't have to be cold alone)

I can barely spell 'shovel', so I think a weird chemistry nerd has a better chance to solve this. Billion is a lot, dude. Might be worth an hour of your idle time.
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Cunt wrote:
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Re: Biodegradable "plastic" bags

Post by laklak » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:45 pm

Ship it to Indonesia. Problem solved.
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Re: Biodegradable "plastic" bags

Post by Cunt » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:58 pm

laklak wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:45 pm
Ship it to Indonesia. Problem solved.
Yeah, we used to do that, then an angry little man from one of those 'tougher than they look' countries told Trudeau he was getting it back - whether he liked it or not.

I wish I remembered his name. It was fucking awesome to have Trudeau embarrassed in that way.

And us all.
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Cunt wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:40 am
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Re: Biodegradable "plastic" bags

Post by rainbow » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:41 am

Woodbutcher wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:58 pm
Cotton bags take 170 times as much energy to produce as plastic, including cotton growing etc.
https://stanfordmag.org/contents/paper- ... r-reusable
It depends on how you do the calculation. I've looked at the original paper and it isn't easy to see how they come to that conclusion. Unfortunately most people read the headline and accept it as fact.

Certainly cotton has a higher footprint, if you use high grade, low yield varieties, grown in the foothills of Tibet and then transported to the USA. Bags can be made of recycled cellulose (including cotton rags) which have a far lower footprint.

I suspect the motives of the paper's authors, but haven't got around to do a proper check.
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Re: Biodegradable "plastic" bags

Post by rainbow » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:47 am

Tero wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:08 pm
"Use vinegar" is their advice for the home. For every problem. It's natural! No chemicals!
Yup. :sulk:
It does make me grumpy when so-called green sites offer an alternative to glyphosate, by suggesting that a mixture of vinegar and salt can be used and is "chemical free".
The high salt content can make the soil sterile for years and the vinegar not only kills weeds but also the earthworms and ants that keep the soil aerated,
:x Stupid bastards :x
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Re: Biodegradable "plastic" bags

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:20 am

At least it's not acidic!
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Re: Biodegradable "plastic" bags

Post by rainbow » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:33 am

rainbow wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:41 am
Woodbutcher wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:58 pm
Cotton bags take 170 times as much energy to produce as plastic, including cotton growing etc.
https://stanfordmag.org/contents/paper- ... r-reusable
It depends on how you do the calculation. I've looked at the original paper and it isn't easy to see how they come to that conclusion. Unfortunately most people read the headline and accept it as fact.

Certainly cotton has a higher footprint, if you use high grade, low yield varieties, grown in the foothills of Tibet and then transported to the USA. Bags can be made of recycled cellulose (including cotton rags) which have a far lower footprint.

I suspect the motives of the paper's authors, but haven't got around to do a proper check.
Looking at the paper, I reconsider their motives. It is simply sloppy out-of-date data mixed with some dodgy assumptions.
In one case they mention a cotton bag from Pakistan having a footprint of 1/4 that of the Chinese bag.
They don't explain why they highlighted the Chinese figure over the Pakistani one.

:dunno: Strange. :ask:
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