US Election 2020

[Sean Hayden]

There are thousands of governments in the US. More than 95% are local.

The idea that you've said anything at all about the practicalities of US democracy by vaguely alluding to its colonial past and its influence on the structure of the Federal government is laughable.

[JimC]

When voting is not compulsory, the turn-out at elections will say important things about the health of democratic processes in a given country. With less than 60% voting in the last US presidential election, things are not good...

[Sean Hayden]

I'd place more emphasis on the integrity and availability of elections than on how many participate. You can have 100% participation in a bogus election after all.

[JimC]

Still, with such a low turn-out, it means that any result cannot be regarded as a convincing expression of popular will...

[Sean Hayden]

Perhaps.

I'd just leave it at being complicated. Democracy requires voting, and so participation is a measurable element of democracies, but what a particular figure says about the quality, or especially the existence of democracy is rather wide open to interpretation.

...see talk being geared to acquiring power, else just fucking decorum.

[Sean Hayden]

On complexity: millions of white voters who voted for Obama in 2008 voted for Trump in 2016.

Is the will of the people confused, fickle, represented, or not?

[JimC]

The "will of the people" is often swayed by emotive, manipulating advertising techniques. These cost money. Power brings money. Success for parties or individuals beholden to money locks in power. Simples...

[Sean Hayden]

It's settled then, the will of the people can't be determined by a vote count. So much for democracy.

[JimC]

It's settled then, the will of the people can't be determined by a vote count. So much for democracy.

It could, if the system changed so that there was no funding of election campaigns. Just each candidate or party presenting a bald list of policies, nothing more...

[Scot Dutchy]

Amazing how people are willing to defend such an undemocratic system.

Here is a lovely list of opinions where 76% says it is undemocratic.

US electoral college: Is the electoral college undemocratic?

The reasons for having the EC makes fun reading. The main trend is; just because the majority of the people live in the urban sprawl they should not have power. "There's democracy for ye".

The Senate is even far worse. It is so undemocratic if the system was drawn up today it would declared void by the Supreme Court.

As the confirmation of Justice Brett Kavanaugh made its painful way through the Senate, a number of liberals began to make an important discovery: The U.S. Senate is undemocratic. Small states get the same quantity of senators as large states. It’s often added that the ratio of population between the largest and the smallest states was “only” 12 to 1 when the Constitution was first adopted. Now it is 68 to 1. (California to Wyoming, in case you’re counting.)

Yes that right folks a voter in Wyoming has 68 times more power than a voter in California.

Revamping the Senate Is a Fantasy

The UK of course cant say anything as it does not elect its upper house even by an undemocratic system.

This above the gerrymandering and voter suppression that goes on at local level in both countries.

[pErvinalia]

The EU can't say anything either, as they don't have one person one vote.

[Scot Dutchy]

Another very simple undemocratic fact: not all states vote using the same system. Apart from the physical voting (ie. paper as opposed to voting machines (very unreliable)) also the way the vote is divided. 48 states have a winner takes all policy. Why not proportional? In 2000 Gore would have won if that was the case.

The big red hand of the GOP has everything in its grasp including so called democracy.

[Scot Dutchy]

The EU can't say anything either, as they don't have one person one vote.

Learn some facts before you rattle your cage will you.

[pErvinalia]

The apportionment of seats within the European Parliament to each member state of the European Union is set out by the EU treaties. The apportionment of seats is not proportional to each state's population, nor does it reflect any particular mathematical formula; however, it is stated in the treaties that distribution of seats should be "degressively proportional" to the population of the member states. The process can be compared to the composition of the electoral college used to elect the President of the United States of America in that, pro rata, the smaller state received more places in the electoral college than the more populous states.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apportion ... Parliament

As usual facts have no impact on you.

[Scot Dutchy]

The apportionment of seats within the European Parliament to each member state of the European Union is set out by the EU treaties. The apportionment of seats isnot proportional to each state's population, nor does it reflect any particular mathematical formula; however, it is stated in the treaties that distribution of seats should be "degressively proportional" to the population of the member states. The process can be compared to the composition of the electoral college used to elect the President of the United States of America in that, pro rata, the smaller state received more places in the electoral college than the more populous states.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apportion ... Parliament

As usual facts have no impact on you.

Read the rest. Cherry picking is a great trait.