Republicans: continued

[Sean Hayden]

Are you joking? It would be embarrassing for me as an American to call Russia hostile!

If you ask whether or not I want to live under Putin, the answer is easier, no I'd rather not.

Does that mean I'll write a blank check for my government to handle Russia as it sees fit? No.

Before doing anything else for National Security I want my government to be accountable.

[pErvinalia]

Are you joking? It would be embarrassing for me as an American to call Russia hostile!

America is irrelevant to whether Russia is hostile towards it. We're not talking about moral justifications here. We are talking about actual actions.

A government's first role is to protect the nation's citizens and institutions. Regardless of how much of a cunt it is being itself. It's irrational for you to accept that there is an external threat, but want to do nothing about it because "they do it too!". You know it's possible to protect your institutions from external threats AND work towards curbing some of your governments shenanigans, right?

[Joe]

I said earlier that neither the identification of threats nor their solutions can be trusted Joe, might you have missed that?

It's crazy, yes? But this is a serious issue that might need resolving before going forward.

Perhaps I did Sean, but why did you say that? What evidence did you offer that negates the evidence in the Mueller report, and resulting indictments?

I hope I'm not making you repeat yourself, but give me a factual basis to believe we shouldn't err on the side of caution.

[Sean Hayden]

Are you joking? It would be embarrassing for me as an American to call Russia hostile!

America is irrelevant to whether Russia is hostile towards it. We're not talking about moral justifications here. We are talking about actual actions.

A government's first role is to protect the nation's citizens and institutions. Regardless of how much of a cunt it is being itself. It's irrational for you to accept that there is an external threat, but want to do nothing about it because "they do it too!". You know it's possible to protect your institutions from external threats AND work towards curbing some of your governments shenanigans, right?

What, this from the guy who explains vandalism as the reaction to societal problems? Of course America is relevant.

[Sean Hayden]

I said earlier that neither the identification of threats nor their solutions can be trusted Joe, might you have missed that?

It's crazy, yes? But this is a serious issue that might need resolving before going forward.

Perhaps I did Sean, but why did you say that? What evidence did you offer that negates the evidence in the Mueller report, and resulting indictments?

I hope I'm not making you repeat yourself, but give me a factual basis to believe we shouldn't err on the side of caution.

I didn't Joe, and that would seem to be the weakest part of my comments thus far.

In my defense I can only caution that in every similar situation it has been possible to provide convincing arguments in favor of taking some action. It was only in hindsight that we were able to see clearly.

So my argument relies heavily on experience. In a real sense then I'm advising to exercise caution.

But you're right to say that's not enough. If the situation demands a particular action be taken immediately then what I've advanced here will fall short.

[Sean Hayden]

So about that credibility problem...

You may be okay with Saddam having yellowcake...

[Hermit]

It's what everyone who can, does.

Yes. I agree. Totally.

So, the problem is with these people doing it, and the problem with that assesment is your credibility. You've got none.

What?

Let me just flagellate myself, put my goathair shirt on and do 50 mea culpas on behalf of my nation. Done.

Now may I mention that Russia and China use money to obtain leverage in other countries too?

[Sean Hayden]

Sorry Hermit that's just part of my being too quick to fire off comments. I said you but I was really still talking about the US.

[pErvinalia]

Are you joking? It would be embarrassing for me as an American to call Russia hostile!

America is irrelevant to whether Russia is hostile towards it. We're not talking about moral justifications here. We are talking about actual actions.

A government's first role is to protect the nation's citizens and institutions. Regardless of how much of a cunt it is being itself. It's irrational for you to accept that there is an external threat, but want to do nothing about it because "they do it too!". You know it's possible to protect your institutions from external threats AND work towards curbing some of your governments shenanigans, right?

What, this from the guy who explains vandalism as the reaction to societal problems? Of course America is relevant.

It's utterly irrelevant if the goal is to not have your institutions interfered with by a foreign authoritarian regime. But for you the goal doesn't seem to be a practical exercise like this, rather an exercise in moral preaching. We are clearly debating two different things.

[Sean Hayden]

I'm not sure what could be more practical than wanting accountability for those whose assessments and solutions have proven disastrous.

Jeesh

[pErvinalia]

edit: meh.

[Sean Hayden]

Sure, but don't ask my government for a realistic assesment of the threat, or reasonable solutions, and especially not for self-reflection or trying something new.

Maybe the Germans could help out? They apparently weren't all keen on the sanctions either; probably overly leveraged by Russian interests.

[Hermit]

Sure, but don't ask my government for a realistic assesment of the threat, or reasonable solutions, and especially not for self-reflection or trying something new.

Since when do the denizens of the US rely on its government for information on whatever threat there is, or are idiotic enough to agree with whatever the government says needs to be done about it? You are making your compatriots seem as moronic as some detractors make them out to be.

[Scot Dutchy]

All cork production is in Russian hands.

[Sean Hayden]

Sure, but don't ask my government for a realistic assesment of the threat, or reasonable solutions, and especially not for self-reflection or trying something new.

Since when do the denizens of the US rely on its government for information on whatever threat there is, or are idiotic enough to agree with whatever the government says needs to be done about it? You are making your compatriots seem as moronic as some detractors make them out to be.

You're being silly. We all rely on them.

Talk about hubris! Hermit, an intelligence service to be reckoned with!