Republicans: continued

[Animavore]

That's what you got from that?

Jeez!

[L'Emmerdeur]

I remember that 'Hitler would have been fine if he confined his ambitions to Germany' thing. She was attempting to rehabilitate the word nationalism, and failing miserably.

Asked by a member of the audience about nationalism in Western politics, Owens brought up Adolf Hitler. “I actually don’t have any problems at all with the word ‘nationalism’,” Owens said. “I think that the definition gets poisoned by elitists that actually want globalism. Globalism is what I don’t want. … Whenever we say nationalism, the first thing people think about, at least in America, is Hitler."

“He was a national socialist,” she continued. “But if Hitler just wanted to make Germany great and have things run well, OK, fine. The problem is that he wanted, he had dreams outside of Germany. He wanted to globalise. He wanted everybody to be German, everybody to be speaking German. Everybody to look a different way. To me, that’s not nationalism. In thinking about how we could go bad down the line, I don’t really have an issue with nationalism. I really don’t.”

[source]

Owens clarified her meaning later, when it became obvious to her that what with the whole genocide thing that she'd managed to overlook in the original statement, it didn't go over so well. In the hearing she implied that she did so at the same event from which the clip played by Lieu was taken. That is not the case.

Owens defended her remarks in a Twitter video on Friday. She said that she was explaining that nationalism was different than what Hitler supported.

“Nationalism is sort of conflated with, for some reason, Hitler,” she said.

“That’s really, really wrong and we that we have to almost correct the record on that,” she added.

“He wasn’t a nationalist. He was a homicidal, psychotic maniac,” she said of the German dictator.

“He wasn’t about putting Germans first. There were German Jews that he was putting into camps and murdering,” she said. "He was a mass murderer."

[source]

'Prager University' that she mentioned in the hearing is not in fact a university at all. It's a evangelical right wing Christian YouTube propaganda outfit. Candace Owens was being dishonest in at least a couple of ways in her response to Lieu.

[Hermit]

That's what you got from that?

Yes. Ted Lieu accused Owens of legitimising Hitler. She didn't. She was defending nationalism. The excerpt Ted Lieu read into the proceedings included an explicit advocacy of nationalism as well as an explicit denunciation of what else Hitler did. “I actually don’t have any problems at all with the word ‘nationalism’ ... The problem is that he wanted, he had dreams outside of Germany. He wanted to globalise." In her reply she made that perfectly clear.

I think Lieu's twisting a story and ignoring nuance to suit his purpose is something we ought to leave to the far right. Owens was emphatically not trying to legitimise Hitler. She did support nationalism. To you nationalism might necessarily entail totalitarianism and/or genocide. While I hate the very concept of nationalism, I disagree.

[Brian Peacock]

We are moving into dangerous times. I hope this flirtation with populist right-wing governments fades away.

Yeah, it'll naturally dissipate along with the radioactive fallout.

[Brian Peacock]

https://bbs.boingboing.net/t/rep-ted-li ... /142335/26

I'm glad boingboing saw fit to link to a Youtube clip that recorded Ted Lieu's question and Candace Owens's reply in its article. She made an excellent fist of correcting the impression Jennifer Bendery is trying to create.

She was amazing.

[Hermit]

https://bbs.boingboing.net/t/rep-ted-li ... /142335/26

I'm glad boingboing saw fit to link to a Youtube clip that recorded Ted Lieu's question and Candace Owens's reply in its article. She made an excellent fist of correcting the impression Jennifer Bendery is trying to create.

She was amazing.

She was not. It's just easy to look good when surrounded by bumbling fools. Ted Lieu's cavalier interpretation of her reference to Hitler was spectacularly off the mark, but Chairman Nadler was worse. He could not even parse a pretty uncomplicated sentence correctly. He accused Candace Owens of insulting committee members. He stopped her in her tracks, with the following admonition: "The witness will suspend for a moment. It is not proper to refer disparagingly to members of the committee. ... The witness may not refer to a member of this committee as stupid."(1:53) What Owens actually said, was "Yes, i think it's pretty apparent that Mister Lieu believes that black people are stupid..."(1:42) (My bold) Nader dismissed her correction with a shrug and a "whatever" type facial gesture.

[Brian Peacock]

Many people would have been intimidated by such an auspicious committee memver grandstanding on the back of an uncharitable representation of their words, and I was impressed by the forthright earnestness of the response to the attempt to tone policing her remarks.

[Hermit]

Many people would have been intimidated by such an auspicious committee memver grandstanding...

Candace Owens is evidently not one of those. Zeroing in on the incompetence of said committee members instead of their auspiciousness or status made destroying their idiotic allegations almost entirely effortless. The allegations were simply that stupid.

[Cunt]

History repeating itself.

Wow! What an open lie! Must be a real stupid sack of shit for tweeting it.

Trump called the gang members (MS13) gang members 'animals', I remember it. He wasn't talking about asylum seekers..

Oh wait...this is Animavore.

Good job, Animavore! You found more evidence of 'Trump Russia Collusion'! Orange man bad!!!

[Animavore]

Ted Lieu accused Owens of legitimising Hitler. She didn't.

She did. She spoke of him in flattering terms.

The excerpt Ted Lieu read into the proceedings included an explicit advocacy of nationalism as well as an explicit denunciation of what else Hitler did. “I actually don’t have any problems at all with the word ‘nationalism’ ... The problem is that he wanted, he had dreams outside of Germany. He wanted to globalise."

Which was an utterly fucking stupid thing to say. As if globalisation was the problem with Hitler. Like, really?

[Hermit]

Ted Lieu accused Owens of legitimising Hitler. She didn't.

She did. She spoke of him in flattering terms.

But if Hitler just wanted to make Germany great and have things run well, OK, fine. The problem is that he wanted, he had dreams outside of Germany. He wanted to globalise. He wanted everybody to be German, everybody to be speaking German. Everybody to look a different way. To me, that’s not nationalism. In thinking about how we could go bad down the line, I don’t really have an issue with nationalism. I really don’t.

Oh, the flattery!

[Animavore]

Ted Lieu accused Owens of legitimising Hitler. She didn't.

She did. She spoke of him in flattering terms.

But if Hitler just wanted to make Germany great and have things run well, OK, fine. The problem is that he wanted, he had dreams outside of Germany. He wanted to globalise. He wanted everybody to be German, everybody to be speaking German. Everybody to look a different way. To me, that’s not nationalism. In thinking about how we could go bad down the line, I don’t really have an issue with nationalism. I really don’t.

Oh, the flattery!

I know what she said. No need to quote it.

She's basically talking about Hitler like he was pretty innocuous until he started invading other countries.

[Cunt]

Many rulers fuck up their own populations in different ways, but are left to it as long as they don't try to take over other countries. It's kind of why borders are a good idea, and globalism can be the other kind.

I mean, would you want to live in a country that welcomed nationalists?!?

[Animavore]

To put it another way. She says it would've been fine if Hitler just wanted to make Germany great. Never mind that that entailed killing non-Germans and making it a white, ethno-state.

Are we really going to say that would've been just fine?

[Hermit]

She's basically talking about Hitler like he was pretty innocuous until he started invading other countries.

Quote her. I mean, quote her. I anticipate your interpretation of what her actual words mean will be of the same calibre as Ted Lieu's interpretation when he accused Owens of legitimising Hitler: Unadulterated rubbish.

Edit: And you just did what I told you not to do.

No, Owens said: "if Hitler just wanted to make Germany great and have things run well, OK, fine." Doesn't even look remotely like she was saying Hitler like was pretty innocuous until he started invading other countries.