Ethiopian Airlines crash: Boeing faces safety questions over 737 Max 8 jets

[Scot Dutchy]

The MCAS that automates the trimming of the stabilizers apparently confounded the pilots of Ethiopian Airlines - I agree with Lak and put this down to incompetence due to poor training on their aircraft. The question is who is responsible for this failure to provide training? Boeing or the airline?

A "safety feature" shouldn't send hundreds of people plummeting to their deaths if the pilots haven't received the most up-to-date training.

Are but... that is catch. Boeing said the Max was the same as other 737's in order to save money on training which is why many airlines ordered it in the first place which is why the crews were not trained.
If the plane is considered to be a new model then the crew has to be fully trained from the beginning. The Max was in fact a new model requiring full training but that is not what Boeing said.
It was the airlines being financially carefulness (as all companies should be) and Boeing playing into this carefulness.

[Svartalf]

then let the lawyers hit them into dissolution, all assets to be liquidated in favor of the victims

[Seabass]

then let the lawyers hit them into dissolution, all assets to be liquidated in favor of the victims

This is America. Boeing will probably end up suing the victims.

[Svartalf]

and ho^pefully lose miserably and find themselfs out of 10 0s sums out of pocket.

[pErvinalia]

then let the lawyers hit them into dissolution, all assets to be liquidated in favor of the victims

This is America. Boeing will probably end up suing the victims.

[Scot Dutchy]

So safe?

Boeing 737 Max 8 makes emergency landing in Florida, Southwest Airlines says

Boeing spokesman says company 'aware of the incident and supporting our customers'

A Southwest Airlines Boeing 737 Max 8 has made an emergency landing in Florida after suffering what officials described as an “engine-related problem”.

The plane, the same model of which has been grounded around the world following two crashes that appeared to indicate problems with a new anti-stall system, was not carrying passengers when it was forced to make the emergency landing at Orlando International Airport.

Rather, two pilots were flying the plane to Victorville, California, where it was to have been stored. Instead, they were obliged to return to Orlando at around 3pm on Tuesday, according to the Orlando Sentinel.

“The crew of Southwest Airlines Flight 8701, a Boeing 737 MAX aircraft, declared an emergency after the aircraft experienced a reported engine problem while departing from Orlando International Airport in Florida about 2.50pm today,” the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) said in a statement.

“The aircraft returned and landed safely in Orlando. No passengers were aboard the aircraft, which was being ferried to Victorville, Calif., for storage. The FAA is investigating.”

[Scot Dutchy]

Investigators 'believe Ethiopian 737 Max's anti-stall system activated'

Reports of high-level briefing with US regulators come as lawsuit is filed against Boeing

Investigators believe Boeing’s controversial anti-stall system on its 737 Max aircraft was activated before Ethiopian Airlines flight ET302 crashed, killing all 157 people onboard, according to reports of a high-level safety briefing with US regulators.

The apparent findings, reported in the Wall Street Journal, would be the strongest indication yet that the same software problem could have contributed to the crash and that of Lion Air flight 610, which killed 189 people in Indonesia in October.

Investigators in the Lion Air case highlighted how pilots battled to keep the plane pointing upwards as the system automatically forced the nose down.

[Tero]

40 seconds
https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/03/26/americ ... n.com%252F

[Tero]

Simple story: The airplane was a bad design that should have been scrapped, but went ahead with software fixes that sort of did it...if they had worked perfectly.

The problem is that an airplane is a big, complicated network of interconnected parts. To get the engine under the 737 wing, engineers had to mount the engine nacelle higher and more forward on the plane. But moving the engine nacelle (and a related change to the nose of the plane) changed the aerodynamics of the plane, such that the plane did not handle properly at a high angle of attack.* That, in turn, led to the creation of the Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS). It fixed the angle-of-attack problem in most situations, but it created new problems in other situations when it made it difficult for pilots to directly control the plane without being overridden by the MCAS.

https://www.vox.com/business-and-financ ... y3JirqFiUg

[Sean Hayden]

We might want to seek the opinion of an engineer on this one Tero. I don't know, but I'm fairly sure that many modern jets rely on software to correct all kinds of flight issues. Fighter jets like the F-16 for example rely heavily on computer systems which in certain edge cases must be disabled to allow a pilot to take over.

This may be way off base, but it makes me wonder if the article is really all that accurate.

[Tero]

Fighter jets do not stall at the speed they normally fly
http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3028

[Sean Hayden]

That's not really point though is it? The point is that they require software for normal operations. Maybe that's not really relevant. I'd have to ask someone who knows though.

[Clinton Huxley]

A Eurofighter Typhoon will fall out of the sky like a stone if you switch the electronics off.

[Tero]

Yeah but ejector seats! Plus nopassengers to kill.

[Clinton Huxley]

Just legislate for ejector seats on all commercial aircraft.

Imagine a 747 going off...