US 2018 November elections

[laklak]

Maybe there is a problem. In the Texas study, 1.5% of people who actually voted had invalid ID. Not a huge percentage, but certainly enough to be a problem and perhaps change the results of a close election. The stats I was most interested in, from the Washington Post, were behind a paywall. Those percentages looked higher but a bar graph doesn't provide enough information to draw any reasonable conclusions.

As for things like missing the registration deadline, inability to find an address, complete ignorance of state voting laws, ignorance of current political issues, or abysmal voter turnout, that's their problem. Sort your shit out. Now, turning up to vote and finding you're not on the voter rolls is certainly an issue, but why that occurs is not addressed and though percentages are greater for Hispanics and blacks, it happens to whites also. That will probably require prospective voters to actually DO something, like check with the registrar if they think there may be an issue. But given the apathy of about half the population it's probably not going to happen. Sort your shit out again.

North Carolina screwed the pooch, and were rightly and smartly smacked down by the courts. This is an indictment of the North Carolina state government and electoral regulators, but it looks like voter ID requirements were the least of their worries there. Besides, those laws are NOT in effect. I don't know about the closed polling stations, there was no further information on that. That needs to stop too, if it's still in effect.

This is interesting, a state by state comparison of voting laws.
http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections- ... er-id.aspx

Only 7 states have a "strict" photo ID requirement. Another 3 have "strict" requirements for non-photo IDs. 39 states allow you to vote without an ID, with no further action required by the voter except signing an affidavit attesting to your identity, if they require ID at all. New Hampshire is on it's own, if you don't have acceptable ID they mail you a a postcard at your registered address, you must mail it back for your vote to count.

I can only speak to Florida. Here, every registered voter is sent a sample ballot a month or more before the election. If you don't receive one you need to call and make sure you're on the rolls. The one election cycle I didn't receive a sample ballot that is what I did, there were no issues and no explanation. If you don't have ID you are allowed to vote anyway, though you must sign an affidavit. 42 has pointed this out multiple times in this thread but it's been ignored. There IS no voter suppression in Florida based on ID, period. All showing an ID does is save you a couple of minutes and one signature. There is no excuse for not voting because you can't get off work. Polls are open at least 2 weeks prior to election day, you can vote by mail, and you are not required to vote at your precinct location during early voting. in Sarasota country early voting started October 22nd, at 6 locations, and they are open from 8:30 AM to 6:00 PM 7 days a week. On election day polls are open from 7 to 7, at far more precinct locations.

As for being harassed at the polls, not much I can say about that. It's self-reported, and one man's harassment is another man's civil question. If there IS harassment, either by poll workers or other voters, then that needs to stop and stop immediately. Arrest people who do it.

Only half of eligible voters reported they were certain they would vote, whites at a slightly higher percentage than blacks (+4%), but less than a third of HIspanics. Smaller percentages said they'd "probably" vote, put it at 50/50, or said they wouldn't. It's even more dire among young adults, only 28% said they were certain they'd vote. I might be forgiven for ignoring their bitching given their inability or refusal to participate. As my old man would say, put up or shut up. Actual turnout in 2016 was about 55% and is historically lower for mid-terms, so I'll be surprised if we hit 50%. So, the number of people who were turned away for invalid ID, who couldn't find the polls, who failed to register, etc., is dwarfed by the number of people who just can't be bothered to get off their asses.

So all in all, yeah, there appears to be a problem with requiring voter ID in 10 states. In my mind the answer is to make it easier to get the correct ID in those states where it is actually an issue. But it's hardly the wholesale, nationwide, Republican engineered, racist suppression of minority voters that has stolen all those elections from Democrats I keep hearing about. The problems of voter apathy, ignorance, and an inability to get your shit together far outweigh it. But that's just, like, my opinion, man.

[Sean Hayden]

It's not an awful opinion. There is definitely a lot of that going on. It's what prompted me to call the Democrat base worthless. They talk a lot of shit, but they only vote when it's the big show. I mean just look at the turnout for Obama compared to everyone else.

[Sean Hayden]

How does Cruz win if it's the MAGA vote that's getting out? Should I just accept everyone's fucking crazy?

[JimC]

I know that nobody in the USA will agree with me, but I'm still going to suggest it, freaky as it may be...

Compulsory voting.

[pErvinalia]

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... aw/493649/

DURHAM, N.C.—The Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals struck down key portions of North Carolina’s strict 2013 voting law on Friday, delivering a stern rebuke to the state’s Republican General Assembly and Governor Pat McCrory. The three-judge panel in Richmond, Virginia, unanimously concluded that the law was racially discriminatory, and it blocked a requirement that voters show photo identification to vote and restored same-day voter registration, a week of early voting, pre-registration for teenagers, and out-of-precinct voting.

“In what comes as close to a smoking gun as we are likely to see in modern times, the State’s very justification for a challenged statute hinges explicitly on race—specifically its concern that African Americans, who had overwhelmingly voted for Democrats, had too much access to the franchise,” wrote Judge Diana Gribbon Motz.

the new provisions target African Americans with almost surgical precision

Democrat judges.

[JimC]

@ Laklak

You make a fair point about the huge impact of people deciding not to vote, or just not giving a fuck. I would imagine that a major motivation for both sides in US politics would be to attempt to get people who often do not vote to come out on polling day to support them. I also note that you identified and decried the clear examples of suppression of voting rights, so fair enough.

However, I think you have not recognised the importance of systematic problems for poor and/or black people voting. For a start, even if the proportions are small compared to people who can't be bothered voting, surely you have elections which go down to the wire; a handful of votes can be vital. But more importantly is a basic democratic principle. A society works best if as many of its members as humanly possible are actively involved in electing its representatives. Whether it be encouraging people to vote, or removing possible barriers to voting, this principle should be a shining light...

[Scot Dutchy]

There should be Federal Laws for Federal elections using all the same system of voting.
It is obvious what is going on. Along with gerrymandering what a mess but confusion is the name of the game.

[Seabass]

Maybe there is a problem. In the Texas study, 1.5% of people who actually voted had invalid ID. Not a huge percentage, but certainly enough to be a problem and perhaps change the results of a close election. The stats I was most interested in, from the Washington Post, were behind a paywall. Those percentages looked higher but a bar graph doesn't provide enough information to draw any reasonable conclusions.

Use an incognito window (Chrome) or a private window (Firefox).

Trigger Warning!!!1! :

As for things like missing the registration deadline, inability to find an address, complete ignorance of state voting laws, ignorance of current political issues, or abysmal voter turnout, that's their problem. Sort your shit out. Now, turning up to vote and finding you're not on the voter rolls is certainly an issue, but why that occurs is not addressed and though percentages are greater for Hispanics and blacks, it happens to whites also. That will probably require prospective voters to actually DO something, like check with the registrar if they think there may be an issue. But given the apathy of about half the population it's probably not going to happen. Sort your shit out again.

North Carolina screwed the pooch, and were rightly and smartly smacked down by the courts. This is an indictment of the North Carolina state government and electoral regulators, but it looks like voter ID requirements were the least of their worries there. Besides, those laws are NOT in effect. I don't know about the closed polling stations, there was no further information on that. That needs to stop too, if it's still in effect.

This is interesting, a state by state comparison of voting laws.
http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections- ... er-id.aspx

Only 7 states have a "strict" photo ID requirement. Another 3 have "strict" requirements for non-photo IDs. 39 states allow you to vote without an ID, with no further action required by the voter except signing an affidavit attesting to your identity, if they require ID at all. New Hampshire is on it's own, if you don't have acceptable ID they mail you a a postcard at your registered address, you must mail it back for your vote to count.

I can only speak to Florida. Here, every registered voter is sent a sample ballot a month or more before the election. If you don't receive one you need to call and make sure you're on the rolls. The one election cycle I didn't receive a sample ballot that is what I did, there were no issues and no explanation. If you don't have ID you are allowed to vote anyway, though you must sign an affidavit. 42 has pointed this out multiple times in this thread but it's been ignored. There IS no voter suppression in Florida based on ID, period. All showing an ID does is save you a couple of minutes and one signature. There is no excuse for not voting because you can't get off work. Polls are open at least 2 weeks prior to election day, you can vote by mail, and you are not required to vote at your precinct location during early voting. in Sarasota country early voting started October 22nd, at 6 locations, and they are open from 8:30 AM to 6:00 PM 7 days a week. On election day polls are open from 7 to 7, at far more precinct locations.

As for being harassed at the polls, not much I can say about that. It's self-reported, and one man's harassment is another man's civil question. If there IS harassment, either by poll workers or other voters, then that needs to stop and stop immediately. Arrest people who do it.

Only half of eligible voters reported they were certain they would vote, whites at a slightly higher percentage than blacks (+4%), but less than a third of HIspanics. Smaller percentages said they'd "probably" vote, put it at 50/50, or said they wouldn't. It's even more dire among young adults, only 28% said they were certain they'd vote. I might be forgiven for ignoring their bitching given their inability or refusal to participate. As my old man would say, put up or shut up. Actual turnout in 2016 was about 55% and is historically lower for mid-terms, so I'll be surprised if we hit 50%. So, the number of people who were turned away for invalid ID, who couldn't find the polls, who failed to register, etc., is dwarfed by the number of people who just can't be bothered to get off their asses.

So all in all, yeah, there appears to be a problem with requiring voter ID in 10 states. In my mind the answer is to make it easier to get the correct ID in those states where it is actually an issue. But it's hardly the wholesale, nationwide, Republican engineered, racist suppression of minority voters that has stolen all those elections from Democrats I keep hearing about. The problems of voter apathy, ignorance, and an inability to get your shit together far outweigh it. But that's just, like, my opinion, man.

No, it's not nationwide; it's red states. And it's definitely Republican engineered—just ask Republicans:

Attorney General Brad Schimel suggests Donald Trump won Wisconsin because of the state's voter ID law

Former Florida GOP leaders say voter suppression was reason they pushed new election law






North Carolina GOP Brags Racist Voter Suppression Is Working—and They’re Right







Republicans Admit Voter ID Laws Are Aimed at Democratic Voters

Jim DeMint: "And so it’s something we’re working on all over the country, because in the states where they do have voter-ID laws you’ve seen, actually, elections begin to change towards more conservative candidates.”

GOP Candidate Speaks Out Against ‘Turd’ North Carolina Voter ID Law

---

And again, it's not just the voter ID stuff. Earlier, I linked an article about a district in Texas pulling shenanigans to prevent black students from voting. I linked an article about the Georgia governor race in which 70% of purged voters were black. I linked an article about how North Dakota passed a law that requires Native American IDs to have street addresses despite most of them using PO boxes because they live on reservations.

All of it, in aggregate, has an non-trivial effect. It swings elections toward Republicans. It's cheating. It's anti-democratic.

[Scot Dutchy]

When has ever been democratic?

[Svartalf]

I know that nobody in the USA will agree with me, but I'm still going to suggest it, freaky as it may be...

Compulsory voting.

it may work in a 2 party state, but could have weird side effects in a multiparty landscape... extremist and weird parties getting all the protest votes.

Plus, voting is already a civic duty, but making it compulsory is going to far. renouncing your right to vote, either because you can't bother, or because there simply is no option worthy of your suffrage ought to be an option, heck, there should be a law invalidating the election if the turnout is not high enough.

[Scot Dutchy]

I know that nobody in the USA will agree with me, but I'm still going to suggest it, freaky as it may be...

Compulsory voting.

it may work in a 2 party state, but could have weird side effects in a multiparty landscape... extremist and weird parties getting all the protest votes.

Plus, voting is already a civic duty, but making it compulsory is going to far. renouncing your right to vote, either because you can't bother, or because there simply is no option worthy of your suffrage ought to be an option, heck, there should be a law invalidating the election if the turnout is not high enough.

Australians think compulsory is best but just look at the mess of their politics. It used to be compulsory here as well. When the rule was changed only 10% less people came out to vote. The hassle it saved was worth it but here of course you dont register to vote. Your residential registration automatically registers you for voting and most other things such as social services, education and healthcare.

[Svartalf]

well, here you have to register separately for everything... so we know how many registered voters fail to go to the ballots, but I'm not sure we know how many people simply are there without having registered... (and I mean citizens, not legal aliens, because I'm pretty sure our figures for illegal aliens are just guesstimates drawn from someone's rear)

[Forty Two]

Data is certainly what you need. If certain groups are less likely to have IDs, and thus have all sorts of problems with the bureaucratic necessities of modern society (including, but not only, voting), then this is a problem. Whether it's racial discrimination or not, it certainly is a systemic disadvantage. Probably someone, somewhere has done research along these lines, not only just the extent of it, but the possible reasons behind it. Apathy, lack of education, distrust of government services could all contribute.

If certain groups are less likely to have IDs, it does not not necessarily follow that they "have all sorts of problems with the bureaucratic necessities..." There are, for example, groups of people who choose not to have the trappings of modern society - they opt not to have IDs, bank accounts, and other things to, as laklak alluded to, "live off the grid."

We need to know why someone is not getting an ID. If they are choosing not to, then it's not a bureaucratic necessity blocking them. 80% of Americans support voter ID requirements, and 77% of blacks and hispanics support them, according to Gallup.

I'd love to see the research that says that black people are less likely to care about having an ID or a driver license, are more likely to not know how to get driver licenses, or are more likely to distrust the government and therefore not get IDs. That would be an interesting study, indeed.

[Forty Two]

I know that nobody in the USA will agree with me, but I'm still going to suggest it, freaky as it may be...

Compulsory voting.

it may work in a 2 party state, but could have weird side effects in a multiparty landscape... extremist and weird parties getting all the protest votes.

Plus, voting is already a civic duty, but making it compulsory is going to far. renouncing your right to vote, either because you can't bother, or because there simply is no option worthy of your suffrage ought to be an option, heck, there should be a law invalidating the election if the turnout is not high enough.

Australians think compulsory is best but just look at the mess of their politics. It used to be compulsory here as well. When the rule was changed only 10% less people came out to vote. The hassle it saved was worth it but here of course you dont register to vote. Your residential registration automatically registers you for voting and most other things such as social services, education and healthcare.

Here a registration of everyone's residences wouldn't work, because you don't have to be allowed to vote in order to have a residence. I.e. visa holders, permanent residents may have, rent and own homes, but they are not permitted to vote, and someone who lost their voting rights because of a firearm felony or something wouldn't be allowed to vote either.

A uniform registration process might be helpful here, though, so I'm interested in seeing what the Netherland's process actually is. Do any demographics have lower rates of registration there?

[Tero]

Senator from prairie state backed Trump, and tariffs, 100%. Challenger, a Democtat, has less thatn 10% chance of winning. It will take another 6 years to get even a Republican in that would fix a farm state issue and NOT go along with any President or Trump running things.
The state has not sent a Democrat to DC since 9-11 happened