Kavanaugh hearing

[Forty Two]

The fucking molesting dick waggling judge lied lied lied

Do you watch these things, and really listen to what they have to say?

Anderson asks him how he knows Kavanaugh is lying - answers -

1. I know Ramirez, and I don’t think she’s lying
2. I don’t think Ford is lying
3. I was his roommate
4. Kavanaugh drank a lot in college – he was heavier drinking than other people.
5. Cooper asks - Any specific examples? How often? - Roche answers - My recollection was “drunk frequently” - frequently had trouble getting up once or twice on weekends – "may have been during the week, also." (may have been). So, his answer - Kavanaugh is lying because Kavanaugh was frequently drunk, on weekends. In college.
6. Cooper asks how Kavanaugh could be a successful college athlete while being a frequent drinker ---
Roche answers - He was an athlete – Roche says Roche was also a varsity athlete – they hung out with a lot of athletes – Roche says athletes can easily drink and work out, and Kavanaugh's drinking did not preclude him from his athletics. - that sounds to me like Kavanaugh was a hard partier, but it didn't effect his athletics (plainly, it also didn't seriously harm his scholastics either, since he did well in high school and college).
7. Cooper asks Roche about calling Kav belligerant and aggressive - asks for example -- Roche has none -- he says By belligerent and aggressive- no specific example – when I say belligerent, I mean demeanor (yelling loudly, people telling him to shut up) – never hit anyone or behaved aggressively toward women (never did). So, Roche never saw Kav violent or aggressive - he was loud. He got drunk, loud and people told him to shut up at some point. Drinking. In. College.
8. Roche is surprised that in 5 or 6 fbi background interviews – why would no fbi agent contact freshman college roommate. LOL. Surprised? Why? Is it common for the FBI to run a background check by going to each nominee's freshman college roommate and finding out freshman college dirt on the person?
9. Cooper goes on to ask - Did you ever see him black out? “I didn’t socialize with Brett – I saw him when he left and when he came home – he could come home incoherent, stumbling, singing, wear football helmet, throw up, trouble getting out of bed.” There were times I did the exact same thing. Did he ever say he couldn’t remember the night before? Nope - Roche can't recall Kav ever not remembering the night before. He thinks that the level of drinking Kav was involved in means he must have blacked out sometimes.
10. Cooper asks what Kav drank back then. My memory is that he was a beer guy. Kav's denial of being black out drunk when he is mainly a beer guy sounds pretty normal. You have to drink a shit ton of beer to to get "black out" drunk. Kavanaugh is like 6' 1" or more - relatively tall guy. He was a big guy - athletic - a football and basketball player - and by the time he was a college freshman he had already been a regular beer drinker for a couple of years. Is it reasonable to conclude a large-body-mass, athletic person is getting "black out" drunk on beer?

Bottom line - Roche doesn't know, and his story is fucking ridiculous. Kavanaugh is lying because in the two months I was his roommate in college, freshman year, I saw Kavanaugh come home on weekends ("maybe" during the week) drunk, stumbling, singing and wearing a football helmet. He got loud.

[Hermit]

Blasey sounds like she was a lot of fun in high school.

Implying what? And do you really want to go there?

Implying that she liked to party in high school, including booze, sex and rock n' roll.

And, yes, I don't mind going there, because it doesn't disqualify her from anything, and says nothing about her veracity. She sounds like a lot of fun.

Phew. For a moment I thought you meant to go somewhere with that, but now that you assured me that you did not I feel much relieved.

[Forty Two]

It's really something to watch you keep misrepresenting people. It's like a tic.

Do you have some examples of people talking about his drinking outside the context of him possibly lying about the extent of it?

Yes. It's been brought up to suggest that if he was really drunk, it shows he is "capable" of committing assault. And, tt's possible he was so drunk that he doesn't remember assaulting his accusers. Must have an investigation to find out. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... tions.html The Slate article, and others like it, don't seem to suggest that Ford's drinking could cause her to not remember events properly....

Also, I've talked about the allegationt that he "possibly lied about the extent of it." We get posts like from the roommate Roche - who says he lied, but then proceeds to corroborate exactly what Kavanaugh testified he did - drink heavily, excessively, and repeatedly in high school and college. Roche did not see Kavanaugh black out, and has no evidence of him blacking out. He just thinks he must have, because he was a big beer drinker and came home stumbling, singing and wearing a football helmet.

If someone is going to say Kavanaugh lied - then they have to cite his words and show how they are not true. What Kavanaugh said about his drinking has not been refuted. Saying "aha! he was drunk regularly in college! Weekends! Drunk! Loud! Partying! Coming home stumbling!" -- that doesn't contradict his testimony.

Because that is what I've seen.

I've seen that, as well, only not persuasively. People want to pretend that he denied drinking heavily, or should have said even more emphatically how heavy he drank. They're calling that a lie. They say he "must have" blacked out. He said he didn't. None of that is a refutation. If I drink 10 beers, I won't black out - never have - I'm about Kavanaugh's size - other people may say "man, I can't believe you drank that many beers - you can't possibly remember that! You blacked out!" -- and if I say, "no, I didn't black out." Am I lying? Are they lying? Or maybe neither is lying? I mean, Roche thinks it strains credulity that Kavanaugh didn't black out. So what? He said that he couldn't know, he just thinks it's implausible. Again, so what?

If you don't then how can you get out of the accusation that you're misrepresenting the other side?

Because I haven't misrepresented the other side, because the other side is suggesting - has suggested - and I saw this on CNN too - that if he was such a big drinker, he could have been there at the party 36 years ago and not remember it. It's not that he "lied" - they're saying that Kavanaugh drinking in high school suggests Kavanaugh could have done it and blacked it out.

You've consistently made out that they have a problem with his drinking. You've attempted to paint them as something like holy rollers, or old school Southern Baptists, etc. But you're not showing any examples of that.

I've said exactly what I said, which wasn't that they are "holy rollers or old school southern baptists." If you're going to talk about misrepresenting a side - at least go by what I've said, instead of what you reword it as. I have shown examples. One is above.

“The Ford case is quite hard to make. And that is where, for Democrats, Kavanaugh's supposed blackouts come in. With no contemporaneous evidence that the Ford attack happened, Democrats are trying to make the case that it could have happened,” York wrote. “What if Kavanaugh got drunk, attacked Ford, and later didn't remember that he did it? That is the theory behind some Democratic senators' questioning of Kavanaugh last week. The idea was to get Kavanaugh to admit alcohol-induced memory loss and thus undermine his firm contention that he did not do what Ford alleged. How could he really know?

That is the theory behind some Democratic senators' questioning of Kavanaugh last week. The idea was to get Kavanaugh to admit alcohol-induced memory loss and thus undermine his firm contention that he did not do what Ford alleged. How could he really know? He himself admitted that he sometimes drank so much he couldn't remember what happened the night before. He could have attacked Christine Ford in an alcoholic blackout and never remember that he did it.

The problem, of course, is that is all anti-Kavanaugh theorizing. There's no evidence to support it, just as there is no evidence beyond Christine Ford's word to support the original attack allegation. But it's what Democrats have to work with right now, and it's why they are trying to change the subject from alleged sexual misconduct to Kavanaugh's teenage drinking.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opin ... r-far-away

So, rather than accuse me of "misrepresenting" people when you don't "see" the things I'm talking about, wouldn't it be more productive if you just ask me the question straight out, without the insinuations that I'm dishonest about it? You could just say "You seem to think that this is about alcohol, rather than lying about alcohol - have any evidence of that?" That question has been answered previously, but I have also added sources in this particular post, so now you should see how, even during the Senate hearings and questioning of Kavanaugh, the democrats had a non-truthtelling angle. It was the "he's a fall down drunk, so he probably did it and doesn't remember" angle.

I don't attribute malice or dishonesty to you. Please don't do it to me.

Now, I find the line of questioning awkward to say the least, and the utter failure on their part to understand why someone --anyone-- especially someone in Kavanaugh's position would minimize the drinking bizarre. It isn't necessarily a sign of poor character on his part, is it? I'd like to see those who say it is stand up to an accusation of attempted rape while simultaneously giving the prosecutors that old school ammo of drink and party! They couldn't do it. They aren't stupid. Everything is relative. From one position the drink and party is harmless, in another it is weaponized.

Honestly, I don't think he did "minimize" it. We don't know how much he actually drank, but what he did say was that he drank heavily, underage, and often, and he liked beer, and drank a lot of it, sometimes excessively. He was pretty forthcoming, in a literal sense. Did he fall on a sword and ask for forgiveness for his sins? Did he cry mea culpa mea culpa? No. But, excessive drinking in high school and college - to most people who went to high school and college - is par for the course - most of the students did that, and in the 1980s, it was still the Animal House generation - the free love generation - the open campus generation - the lowered drinking age generation.

So I'm actually sympathetic to his need to minimize in this situation, and I don't necessarily count that against him.

Well, can you show where he "minimized" his drinking? Was his denial of blacking out "minimization?" "I drank beer with my friends," Kavanaugh testified. "Almost everyone did. Sometimes I had too many beers. Sometimes others did. I liked beer. I still like beer. But I did not drink beer to the point of blacking out, and I never sexually assaulted anyone." What should he have said for it not to be minimization?

[Forty Two]

Phew. For a moment I thought you meant to go somewhere with that, but now that you assured me that you did not I feel much relieved.

the only place I would go with that would be apply that standard to both Ford and Kavanaugh.

The fact that they had weird shit in their yearbooks, and drank heavily, and parties, and made oblique, innuendo driven references in their yearbooks doesn't mean shit.

If someone talks about or writes about ralphing, doing sexual things, drinking games and other references, it doesn't mean they did them in actual fact. Plenty of what goes on in yearbooks and in high school discussions is just talk - bluster - humor - girls can put in yearbooks that they like Mr. Scott's wee wee without having experienced Mr. Scott's wee wee.

If we are going to appoint SCOTUS judges by scrutinizing their yearbook entries, or interviewing their dickhead first year college roommates, we've really reached rock bottom. At least I hope, because if we sink much lower, we may as well just fucking kill ourselves as a nation.

[Sean Hayden]

I was a heavy drinker. I partied a lot. Yeah, I drank to excess and I'm sure that I even drank to the point of blacking out. Are you suggesting that my drinking made me attempt to rape someone? --idiots

Then all they'd have is what you're attempting to put on them now ie a problem with his drinking.

[Sean Hayden]

But like I said, I sympathize with his approach. If he does say that in simple terms and admit to perhaps drinking more than his peers, going further than others at parties he opens himself up to what you think he's facing now. It's difficult to win in that spot.

[Sean Hayden]

btw you talk too much dude. I can't be expected to go through every point by point post of yours. Do you write for a living?

[Cunt]

Still don't think either is lying.

I mean that, too. I think if you gave either a flawless polygraph test, with the only question 'did you lie during your senate hearing?', they would both deny lying, and pass with flying colours.

[Sean Hayden]

Yeah, it's like I said --ain't it always -- we have to live with uncertainty. If that's true then it isn't necessary for me to discredit either of them.

But what's the best course of action to take now? --why?

[Forty Two]

Trigger Warning!!!1! :

Joe, let's address points from the article you posted:

The article says

Here is what he says: “I never attended a gathering like the one Dr. Ford describes in her allegation.”

The article says that he's lying because he was at other parties where other people, and some of the same folks (PJ and Mark Judge) were in attendance. I mean, to start with this is monumentally disingenuous. How in the world, Joe, does the fact that Kavanaugh went to high school parties translate into he was lying when he says he never attended a gathering like the one Ford describes in her allegation? He wasn't there, and and that means he wasn't anywhere - Blasey Ford isn't specific as to whose house and when it is - all that Kavanaugh can say is that he was not at a gathering like the one described by Ford. That doesn't mean the guy wasn't at any roughly similar parties - like - get togethers with other friends where they drank beer. Does it? I mean, does it? Surely you'll admit that the article does not illustrate a lie here.

So - go ahead - explain how Kavanaugh's statement "I never attended a gathering like the one Dr. Ford describes in her allegation" has been demonstrated to be untrue. Remember, the authoer said "I want to show you, clearly and definitively, how Brett Kavanaugh has lied to you and lied to the Senate."

So - point me to it.

Ah, as Seth once said, "so much bilge, so little time."

Look in the mirror Forty Two. You've done your usual strawman argument trick, misrepresenting the argument, and railing against that instead of the author's more powerful one. You quote the first sentence of a sizable passage and disingenuously paraphrase the rest.

Let's look at what you're trying to hide. From after your quote:

And here is the gathering as Ford describes it:

After a day of diving at the club, I attended a small gathering at a house in the Bethesda area. There were four boys I remember specifically being there: Brett Kavanaugh, Mark Judge, a boy named P.J., and one other boy whose name I cannot recall. I also remember my friend Leland attending. I do not remember all of the details of how that gathering came together, but like many that summer, it was almost surely a spur-of-the-moment gathering… People were drinking beer in a small living room/family room-type area on the first floor of the house.

Kavanaugh says that he never attended any event like this. Like what, though? He never attended a small gathering in Bethesda where people were drinking beer? Kavanaugh submitted his own calendars from the summer of 1982 into evidence for the Senate. As he said himself, “the calendars show a few weekday gatherings at friends’ houses after a workout or just to meet up and have some beers.” He says that he never attended a gathering like this, but that’s obviously false, because the type of gathering he says he did attend is exactly the kind she describes.

Coverage of Ford’s allegations has often implied that the “party” at which she alleges she was assaulted was a kind of large Bacchanalian house party. This is a crucial part of Kavanaugh’s “calendar” defense: If there had been a big party, lots of people would have been there, it would probably have been on his summer calendar under “PAR-TAY!” It would have been notable, and since nobody seems to remember it and he even wrote far less significant events on his calendar, Ford must be misremembering.

But Ford has been clear: She is not talking about a big event. She is talking about a few friends and acquaintances hanging around drinking some beer in a living room:

It was not really a party like the news has made it sound. It was not. It was just a gathering that I assumed was going to lead to a party later on that those boys would attend, because they tended to have parties later at night than I was allowed to stay out. So it was kind of a pre-gathering.

It’s impossible to believe Kavanaugh when he says he never attended any event “like the one Dr. Ford describes.” It was a very typical low-key high school event, and it would have been shocking if Kavanaugh never attended such a thing. Indeed, he admits it himself.

Got that? The author claims Kavanaugh's statement appears to be contradicted by his own testimony. Unlike you, he even provides a link to the transcript, so we can check it out ourselves. Your paraphrasing doesn't mention this at all.

But he goes on.

Okay, so this was a weird lie to tell, because everyone goes to these sorts of events and he had them on his own calendar. But okay, maybe you think that he wasn’t trying to subtly reinforce the impression that Ford was alleging some kind of noteworthy event. Maybe you think he just meant “I never went to this kind of small gathering with the people Ford says.” Indeed, Kavanaugh says:

[N]one of those gatherings included the group of people that Dr. Ford has identified. And as my calendars show, I was very precise about listing who was there; very precise.

Well it’s hard to misinterpret that. He was very precise. Who, then, is the group of people that Dr. Ford has identified? From her testimony:

There were four boys I remember specifically being there: Brett Kavanaugh, Mark Judge, a boy named P.J., and one other boy whose name I cannot recall. I also remember my friend Leland attending.

So presumably, if we looked at what Kavanaugh’s calendars show, we wouldn’t find an event with Mark Judge, P.J., some other boy, and Leland. Instead, he gives examples of the kinds of gatherings he did attend:

I [was] in D.C. on Saturday night, August 7th. But I was at a small gathering at Becky’s house in Rockville with Matt, Denise, Laurie and Jenny. Their names are all listed on my calendar. I won’t use their last names here. And then on the weekend of August 20 to 22nd, I was staying at the Garrets’ (ph) with Pat (ph) and Chris (ph) as we did final preparations for football training camp.

None of these names are the names Ford cites. Clearly she knows nothing about his summer. But wait: Let’s look at the entry for July 1st, one Kavanaugh did not cite in his list of “parties with people who are not the people Ford cited.” On July 1st, Kavanaugh planned to go “to Timmy’s for skis w/Judge, Tom, PJ, Bernie, Squi.” There’s Mark Judge! There’s P.J.! So he gathered for [brew]skis with 2 of the 3 people Ford says she remembers being there. Small gathering? Beer? Judge, Brett, and P.J.? Check, check, and check. So when Kavanaugh says none of the gatherings on the calendar include the people Ford says, and implies that Ford was just conjuring names of people he would never gather with, that’s false. In fact, she cited a small gathering with P.J. and Judge before he released his calendar confirming it.

So here, Robinson shows that physical evidence contradicts a statement Kavanaugh made. He even provides a picture of the calendar. Again, you don't mention it in your paraphrase.

So your "refutation" fails by relying on a strawman, and Robinson's case for lying under oath looks pretty solid, being based on actual testimony and physical evidence.

BTW, strawman is a polite term for lie, and occurs all too often in your arguments.

I don't appreciate you calling me a liar. It detracts from your argument, too, because it's a distraction - when you make it about your opponent and instead of acknowledging a different opinion you attack the opponent's character, it suggests a weakness in your argument. And that weakness is obvious. I didn't lie, nor did I mischaracterize in any way the author's allegation as to Kavanaugh's alleged lie. I explained howe the author is wrong, yes, but nothing you wrote suggests I mischaracterized or strawmanned the author.

Your post sets out and quotes the article - and indeed what I said the author is claiming is dead on accurate - the author is claiming that the lie Kavanaugh told is about being at a party like that described by Ford. Which the author says is "Okay, so this was a weird lie to tell, because everyone goes to these sorts of events and he had them on his own calendar." And, the author points out several times where Kavanaugh noted that he did go to small high school gatherings.

The author interprets the sentence "I never attended a gathering like the one Ford describes in her allegation." You point out that the author provided "physical evidence" that it wasn't true, because there on his calendar is a July 1 gathering (with other people in attendance, at night (not during the day) and in a different location), and you and he say see, there is evidence he's lying, because that July 1 event is "like" the gathering he denied being at. That's exactly what I said his allegation was -- I did not strawman him.

Now, let's look at Kavanaugh's statement:

Second, let’s turn to specifics. I categorically and unequivocally deny the allegation against me by Dr. Ford. I never had any sexual or physical encounter of any kind with Dr. Ford. I never attended a gathering like the one that Dr. Ford describes in her allegation. I’ve never sexually assaulted Dr. Ford or anyone. Again, I’m not questioning that Dr. Ford may have been sexually assaulted by some person, in some place, at some time, but I have never done that to her or to anyone.

Dr. Ford’s allegation stems from a party that she alleges occurred during the summer of 1982. Thirty-six years ago. I was 17 years old. Between my junior and senior years of high school at Georgetown Prep, a rigorous all-boys Catholic Jesuit high school in Rockville, Md. When my friends and I spent time together at parties on weekends, it was usually with friends from nearby Catholic all-girl high schools: Stone Ridge, Holy Child, Visitation, Immaculata, Holy Cross.

Dr. Ford did not attend one of those schools. She attended an independent private school named Holton-Arms and she was a year behind me. She and I did not travel in the same social circles. It’s possible we met at some point at some events, although I do not recall that. To repeat, all of the people identified by Dr. Ford as being present at the party have said they do not remember any such party ever happening. Importantly, her friend, Ms. Keyser, has not only denied knowledge of the party, Ms. Keyser said under penalty of felony, she does not know me. Does not recall ever being at a party with me ever. And my two male friends who were allegedly there, who knew me well, have told this committee under penalty of felony that they don’t recall any such party and I never did or never would do anything like this.

Do you see that a couple sentences after saying he was not at a party like that described by Ford, he goes on to say that he spent time going to to partie with friends? He wasn't saying he didn't go to parties with friends or any small gatherings. He's saying he didn't go to the party Ford describes or anything like it. Those other parties were not "like" the one described by Ford because they were at different locations, with different people. They're not "like" what Ford describes, other than all small gatherings of kids drinking beer share some common characteristics.

Do you see how the calendar does not contradict Kavanaugh saying that he was not at a party like that described by Dr. Ford? - look at his actual testimony. Do you think his statement means that he never got together with a few kids for drinks at someone's house? That's what the author is saying, isn't it?

[Forty Two]

Yeah, it's like I said --ain't it always -- we have to live with uncertainty. If that's true then it isn't necessary for me to discredit either of them.

But what's the best course of action to take now? --why?

You tell me. What would you say the best course of action to take now?

[Cunt]

Yeah, it's like I said --ain't it always -- we have to live with uncertainty. If that's true then it isn't necessary for me to discredit either of them.

But what's the best course of action to take now? --why?

I think take focus off Ford and Kavanaugh. Look to what folks like Feinstein, and the other manipulators were doing with this. If Feinstein leaked this, it was a slight against Ford, Kavanaugh and the Senate, but that isn't the significant part.

The big one is that she fucked over 300 million Americans. If true, it's a bigger deal than a SCOTUS nomination, wouldn't you say?

Not saying she is the only rotten apple involved with this particular bushel, but she is fucking rotten. I might believe one of her staffers did it without her direction, but still, she is responsible for her office.

[Forty Two]

I was a heavy drinker. I partied a lot. Yeah, I drank to excess and I'm sure that I even drank to the point of blacking out. Are you suggesting that my drinking made me attempt to rape someone? --idiots

Then all they'd have is what you're attempting to put on them now ie a problem with his drinking.

Of course, he may not have drank to the point of blacking out.

I'm in his generation - I was a heavy drinker. I partied a shit ton - in high school and in college - weekends of senior year, and the summers before and after, were beer soaked. In college I partied 4 times a week for the entirety of Freshman year. I never "blacked out." I preferred beer, and the amount of beer I'd have to drink to black out would be monumental.

And, your suggestion would not get him out of hot water, because the answer to the question "do you think drinking made me sexually assault someone..." would be "not necessarily Mr. Kavanaugh, but your drinking obviously could cause you to black out and participate in parties - and sexual assaults - without remembering them...."

[laklak]

Yeah, it's like I said --ain't it always -- we have to live with uncertainty.

[Sean Hayden]

I was a heavy drinker. I partied a lot. Yeah, I drank to excess and I'm sure that I even drank to the point of blacking out. Are you suggesting that my drinking made me attempt to rape someone? --idiots

Then all they'd have is what you're attempting to put on them now ie a problem with his drinking.

Of course, he may not have drank to the point of blacking out.

I'm in his generation - I was a heavy drinker. I partied a shit ton - in high school and in college - weekends of senior year, and the summers before and after, were beer soaked. In college I partied 4 times a week for the entirety of Freshman year. I never "blacked out." I preferred beer, and the amount of beer I'd have to drink to black out would be monumental.

And, your suggestion would not get him out of hot water, because the answer to the question "do you think drinking made me sexually assault someone..." would be "not necessarily Mr. Kavanaugh, but your drinking obviously could cause you to black out and participate in parties - and sexual assaults - without remembering them...."

Oh he can't get out of it. Humans are sick. It's like I always say:

1. head down