Kavanaugh hearing

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Tero » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:42 pm

”I’m still a virgin with a calendar!”
Kavanaugh

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Sean Hayden » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:52 pm

I'm glad it's not just me who thinks the calendar thing is weird. But it could just be that it was put in a box and his mom kept it in the attic with all his other shit. I've got a bunch of stuff like that too. Some of it is bound to be weirder than his calendar.
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Forty Two » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:55 pm

:spray:

She's a crackpot.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Forty Two » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:27 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:52 pm
I'm glad it's not just me who thinks the calendar thing is weird. But it could just be that it was put in a box and his mom kept it in the attic with all his other shit. I've got a bunch of stuff like that too. Some of it is bound to be weirder than his calendar.
It is weird, but this guy has stuff on that calendar like "Interview with Brown" and "Interview with Yale" in addition to his sports and social events calendar. Compared to my high school years, this kid had a shit-ton to do and a lot of engagements and appointments. He was in multiple sports and took his academics seriously. He probably learned to use a calendar to keep himself from forgetting things, and they were just put in boxes when done. I don't know. But - yes, it's weird for a high school kid to keep such a rigorous calendar, but, frankly, it would have been one of the greatest things for my middle school or high school to do - give us a short class in how to manage a calendar. Most adults don't know how to do it, much less kids.

Anyway - it's Ford who says this happened in the summer of 1982 (well, she says that now - it used to be "mid-1980s"). So, on his calendar he has exam week followed by beach week - June 1 through the 13th. Kavanaugh was not around. On the 14th he went to "urgo's" after his game and weight training that day -- on the 15th he went to "Matt's baseball game." On the 16th he had a game which he lost, and then he went to see Grease II with "Suzanne" (she's mentioned several times - looks like a girl he's dating). On the 17th he went to pick up pictures. On the 18th basketball camp started, and that lasted through the 25th - once b-ball camp ends, he goes to a party at "the Boathouse" with squi and some others - obviously that's not the party Ford was referring to. On the 26th, he went to St. Michael's with Squi and Mark and then they went to see Poltergeist (that doesn't sound like what Ford is talking about). He came home from St. Michael;s on the 28th he started work and had a game. On the 29th, more b-ball, and Tobin's house for workout (6pm to 8pm), and on the 30th he had a doctor appointment and a game.

The July 1 date, as I posted above- he goes to Timmy's for skis, which can't be the party Ford describes (wrong location, wrong people, according to her). Then he's gone for the weekend to the beach. Then on July 4, he goes to Anne Dougherty's party (also cannot be the party Ford talks about because it's at the beach - he doesn't get back from the beach until July 5 - and Ford doesn't claim that to be it anyway). His calendar is full through July.

Unless he created this calendar with fake entries in 1982, it's pretty helpful to him.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:33 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:52 pm
And, whose house was it? PJ's (no). Kavanaugh's (no). Mark Judge (no). Keyser's (no). Was it her own house? (no).

At most, there was one other person there, so it's that guy's house. She doesn't say who that is, though.

She knows there was ONE other male at the party she attended at which she was so traumatically sexually assaulted that it has effected her for her entire life, and it still makes her cry to tell it. She remembers EVERYONE ELSE at the party, except the one person whose testimony could sink the whole thing.

If we knew whose house it was, we could ask that person about it, and maybe find out that there was no such party, or that Ford's account of what went on is not accurate. It's not as if she is being asked to remember one person out of a a party of many people. She doesn't remember the HOST of the party, when she remembers - she says - everyone else who was at the party (well, she remembers now -- previously she had different numbers of people attending, so, who knows...?). You remember four attendees, but not the person who hosted the party.

And, this is at a time in her life when she didn't attend many parties. Remember - she told the committee that she wasn't really allowed out late, and most of this popular group's parties occurred at night when she wasn't allowed out. She was just 15. Were there so many parties that she attended at so many people's houses that this one just blended in? She can't drive -- and she had parents who would really be pissed off if she was "drinking beer with boys" -- so she was terrified to mention being almost raped to them.... she wasn't allowed out late enough to attend the same parties Kavanaugh attended -- but, she was invited to someone's house (the one attendee we don't know is the host of the party) - she was driven there by someone (not anyone at the party) -- and it was early, during the day -- and she remembers she was at "the country club" earlier and left there and was driven to the party (by whom we don't know, but we can be 100% sure she was driven there), to go to the person she doesn't remember's house, and all the other people there have no idea who the bost could be because none of them have any idea what Blasey Ford is talking about....?

And, of course, we don't know who picked her up afterwards (having cut the whole thing short - she was just going to go take a piss -- she wasn't leaving) - and then she runs out of the house. Someone picked her up, she's sure, but we can't possibly figure out who. Nobody comes forward. Or, will she next say that she remember walking for miles on her own, in shock over the incident?

We're supposed to believe this?
So Ms Ford is a mendacious, conspiratorial, lying shill?
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Tero » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:33 pm

Trump getting all the mileage out of Kavanaugh to get his people to vote:
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5bb4 ... SSTAND0001

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Forty Two » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:13 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:33 pm
Forty Two wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:52 pm
And, whose house was it? PJ's (no). Kavanaugh's (no). Mark Judge (no). Keyser's (no). Was it her own house? (no).

At most, there was one other person there, so it's that guy's house. She doesn't say who that is, though.

She knows there was ONE other male at the party she attended at which she was so traumatically sexually assaulted that it has effected her for her entire life, and it still makes her cry to tell it. She remembers EVERYONE ELSE at the party, except the one person whose testimony could sink the whole thing.

If we knew whose house it was, we could ask that person about it, and maybe find out that there was no such party, or that Ford's account of what went on is not accurate. It's not as if she is being asked to remember one person out of a a party of many people. She doesn't remember the HOST of the party, when she remembers - she says - everyone else who was at the party (well, she remembers now -- previously she had different numbers of people attending, so, who knows...?). You remember four attendees, but not the person who hosted the party.

And, this is at a time in her life when she didn't attend many parties. Remember - she told the committee that she wasn't really allowed out late, and most of this popular group's parties occurred at night when she wasn't allowed out. She was just 15. Were there so many parties that she attended at so many people's houses that this one just blended in? She can't drive -- and she had parents who would really be pissed off if she was "drinking beer with boys" -- so she was terrified to mention being almost raped to them.... she wasn't allowed out late enough to attend the same parties Kavanaugh attended -- but, she was invited to someone's house (the one attendee we don't know is the host of the party) - she was driven there by someone (not anyone at the party) -- and it was early, during the day -- and she remembers she was at "the country club" earlier and left there and was driven to the party (by whom we don't know, but we can be 100% sure she was driven there), to go to the person she doesn't remember's house, and all the other people there have no idea who the bost could be because none of them have any idea what Blasey Ford is talking about....?

And, of course, we don't know who picked her up afterwards (having cut the whole thing short - she was just going to go take a piss -- she wasn't leaving) - and then she runs out of the house. Someone picked her up, she's sure, but we can't possibly figure out who. Nobody comes forward. Or, will she next say that she remember walking for miles on her own, in shock over the incident?

We're supposed to believe this?
So Ms Ford is a mendacious, conspiratorial, lying shill?
It's possible. We are always amazed when fucked up people lie through their teeth (not just about rape or sexual assault). But, she could also be off her rocker.

Mattress girl?
Sabrina Erdely's "Jackie"?
Mary Zolkowski?
Nikki Yolvino?
McMartin preschool?
Duke Lacrosse?
Susan Smith?
Anna Anderson

Some people are nuts, too. Some people think they have relationships with celebrities when they don't. Dr. Ford conceivably may be in need of serious help.

Most people tell the truth. We've been over this before. Even if the allegation was about financial impropriety or a regular assault and battery, or theft of a lawn mower. Most people don't accuse people falsely. However, some people do, whether honestly or dishonestly. This appears to be one of those times.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Seabass » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:17 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:13 pm
Some people are nuts
I agree with you wholeheartedly.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." —Voltaire
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Tero » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:44 pm

42, your arguments have all turned into lawyer type of sparkle dust. Let's throw this at them!

Simply throwing in a lot of people and a lot of claims that seem ridiculous SOMEHOW seems to lump Ford testimony as more of the same.

Well, it is not. Her testimony is quite reasonable for 30 plus years ago. I can only remember three or four names from my high school days. I remember three teachers by name. It is in no way unreasonable that she does not know the name of a person at the party.

Ask her how she knew Brett Kavanaugh. She can explain that. He was in a prep school. They needed GIRLS to fuck.

HERE is the math
In 1982, Kavanaugh was a senior at elite Georgetown Prep boarding school outside Washington, D.C., where he played on the football team and was also captain of the basketball team.

His accuser was a sophomore cheerleader at Holton-Arms School, an all-female academy with alumni that include Jackie Kennedy and "Veep" star Julia Louis-Dreyfus.
Last edited by Tero on Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Sean Hayden » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:54 pm

I personally liked the going from mid 80s to 82 being taken as a sign of inconsistency. :hehe: Sometimes I worry that my not saying something will be taken as agreement.
The latest fad is a poverty social. Every woman must wear calico,
and every man his old clothes. In addition each is fined 25 cents if
he or she does not have a patch on his or her clothing. If these
parties become a regular thing, says an exchange, won't there be
a good chance for newspaper men to shine?

The Silver State. 1894.

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Sean Hayden » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:56 pm

Mid 80s! 82! Well, what is it! I don't know dude what's mid 80s? It can't just be 85 or we'd just say 85. So is it 84-86? 83-86? No, let's stick with 84-86, 82! 82! That's not the mid 80s! The mid 80s are 84-86! ah-ha!
The latest fad is a poverty social. Every woman must wear calico,
and every man his old clothes. In addition each is fined 25 cents if
he or she does not have a patch on his or her clothing. If these
parties become a regular thing, says an exchange, won't there be
a good chance for newspaper men to shine?

The Silver State. 1894.

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Animavore » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:08 pm

Apparently Dems are losing their voter enthusiasm edge over this hearing. Think about it; the idea of putting a possible rapist into the Supreme Court and shitting on women everywhere is what drives them.

Trump supporters are not good people.
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Forty Two » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:25 pm

Tero wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:44 pm
42, your arguments have all turned into lawyer type of sparkle dust. Let's throw this at them!
Dude, your arguments don't even concern themselves with what any of the relevant persons actually say. You glom onto the 7/1 date, as if it actually helps Ford, when in fact, if that is stated as the date, it proves she's not telling the truth. You presume guilt by just calling Kavanaugh a dick waggler, when there is zero evidence he ever waggled his dick at anyone. You claim he's lied about his drinking, when the facts that you advance to show that do not actually contradict what he said.

Tero wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:44 pm

Simply throwing in a lot of people and a lot of claims that seem ridiculous SOMEHOW seems to lump Ford testimony as more of the same.
Not in the least - I pointed out exactly why Ford's story doesn't make sense, and it requires no reference to the other bullshit allegations of gang rape and such.
Tero wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:44 pm
Well, it is not. Her testimony is quite reasonable for 30 plus years ago. I can only remember three or four names from my high school days. I remember three teachers by name. It is in no way unreasonable that she does not know the name of a person at the party.
No no - she doesn't know the name of the person who HOSTED the party - she does say she knows the names of everyone else who was at the party. She also says she knows exactly how many beers she drank at the party, but she doesn't know who drover her and dropped her off at the party and who picked her up (and how she contacted someone to pick her up).

And it's not just her memory that I took issue with. It's the fact that she gave conflicting stories.

I agree with you, it's hard to remember everyone at a party, nor would I expect her to remember every person. However, because it is understandable that memory lapses increase over time, that's why testimony about events decades ago is far less reliable than testimony about events last week. What "less reliable" means is that it's less likely to be accurate. It's more likely to have mistakes. It's more likely to be wrong. Also, when people make stuff up that isn't true, they tend to do so in ways that cannot be disproven - i.e. unfalsifiable claims. That's why we don't believe someone when they're talking about how they "laid lots of times -- she lives in Niagara Falls -- you wouldn't know her..." -- it's easy to maintain a lie about stuff they can't disprove. It's no coincidence that her story changes. Seemed to happen when it was about to be possible to check out a fact.

And remember the changes - this is not something innocuous. The core facts of the event changd. Not just the year it occurred, but the location - the location of the house changed (conveniently) - the floorplan of the house changed (conveniently) - the number of people at the "party" changed (conveniently) - and when she identified them, the most important person who would be able to verify it (since not one of the alleged attendees know what she's talking about) is left out - how nice! Who else could be an indepedent verification? A ride there and ride home. Can't identify them.

I don't know anything you can verify or check out, even in a rudimentary way - but, trust me, I am 100% sure I was sexually assaulted by Brett Kavanaugh in that room. The rest of the stuff is a haze of evolving facts that nobody can check.

There is no other context in which this bullshit would fly. If it was a male accuser saying that Kavanaugh beat the shit out of him in a fistfight out by the flagpole - we would want evidence and if there were inconsistencies and evolution of the surrounding facts - and if two people he said witnessed the beating said "never happened - don't remember ever going out to the flapole to see Kav fight" - people would say "well, I guess it's denied, and the relevant witnesses don't support the allegation, and you waited 36 years to report the beating - nothing we can do with it. We would not be saying "believe the beating victim, because hardly anyone who hasn't been beaten up accuses someone of beating them up."
Tero wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:44 pm
Ask her how she knew Brett Kavanaugh. She can explain that. He was in a prep school. They needed GIRLS to fuck.
So what? Fucking is not a crime, and neither is wanting to fuck. Pretty much every 15-17 year old I knew in high school wanted to fuck. Isn't it normal post-puberty to want to make sexy time?

Tero logic: He was in prep school, and wanted to fuck girls. Therefore, Dr. Ford's story is true, even if most of it isn't.

Tero wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:44 pm

HERE is the math
In 1982, Kavanaugh was a senior at elite Georgetown Prep boarding school outside Washington, D.C., where he played on the football team and was also captain of the basketball team.

His accuser was a sophomore cheerleader at Holton-Arms School, an all-female academy with alumni that include Jackie Kennedy and "Veep" star Julia Louis-Dreyfus.
What does that lead you to conclude?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Sean Hayden » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:29 pm

I think I understand your position 42. I just don't agree with your approach here. It's not a criminal court.

Can't you just ask for evidence?

I'm not happy about the position they've put us in either. But I'm trying to accept that it will remain an uncertainty. I'm also trying to figure out how we should proceed given that this will remain an uncertainty. By that I just mean what I think the best course of action is, and not that I think we have any say in what actually happens. :hehe:
The latest fad is a poverty social. Every woman must wear calico,
and every man his old clothes. In addition each is fined 25 cents if
he or she does not have a patch on his or her clothing. If these
parties become a regular thing, says an exchange, won't there be
a good chance for newspaper men to shine?

The Silver State. 1894.

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Tero » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:35 pm

”What does that lead you to conclude?”

That 1982 is likely the date. It should mot be difficult for a competent FBI agent to find people that knew both K and F in 1982. There must be some social circles where these prep school kids could interact.

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