Kavanaugh hearing

[Forty Two]

There is just so much shit here, from 42, ....
My own take is that the slut is not applying to the Supreme Court, the teen alcoholic is.

That's in your mind, Tero, not mine. I never called her a slut.

And, there is no indication that he was or is an alcoholic. Heavy drinking at parties in high school means the guy was a "teen alcoholic" now?

The absurdity just keeps getting more and more extreme. I have to stop marveling about how ridiculous the statements are that are being made. It's weird how people react to Trump, but the Democrats and the media have managed to so wind up their base that they pretend now to be and to require their politicians/judges to be more sober, chaste, and blameless -- only innocent, teetotalling virgins need apply.

[Tero]

The hypocrite judge that had all that trouble getting laid now wants to stop abortion as we know it. Trump promised!

See the problem? Drinking was merely a tool, a means to sex.

[Sean Hayden]

Jesus, it's the same old shit man. A guy can't flip burgers drunk. But you don't care if he flies the fucking plane. People are tired of double standards dude. You're okay with Bush having done cocaine. I want to know how he sat on his ass in the White House while others are doing time for shit he got away with, and he did it as the president of a party in love with a punitive justice system!

What is happening to everyone? Have they all gone bonkers?

--//--

The above is not intended to be a serious response, but it does make a serious point.

We're not talking about him being a drunk now - we're talking about his drinking in high school and college. What the fuck is this? Choir practice at a local born again christian church, "doin' that Christian side-hug?" This is fucking Ratz, and you're going to sit here and say that someone DRINKING in college is disqualifying him from a job? What in the holy fuck?

Am I o.k. with Bush having done cocaine? Yes. I'm also o.k. with Obama having done cocaine, aren't you? https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/BothSid ... 754&page=1 You never saw me suggest otherwise.

Your nonserious but "serious point" was - "I want to know how he sat on his ass in the White House while others are doing time for shit he got away with, and he did it as the president of a party in love with a punitive justice system!" Oh, do you now? Do you want to know how Obama sat on his ass in the White House while others are doing time for shit he got away with? LOL. Of course....

There was probably as much excessive drinking at the last Ratz meetup as occurred at the parties Kavanaugh describes in the 80s.

You want to talk about hypocrisy? A bunch of people who call themselves Progressives sitting there saying a guy is disqualified from office because he drank and partied in fucking high school and college -- and saying that because he drank in high school and got drunk, it is an indication that he actually did attack Ford and just doesn't remember it. Literally heard that said repeatedly, and reported in mainstream media sources and said on MSNBC and CNN pundit programs - in all seriousness.

Jesus Tap Dancing Christ.

I didn't see Obama or his party as supporting a punitive justice system, did you?

Did you miss the bit where I asked how Bush sat on his ass as president of the party in love with a punitive justice system?

You just misrepresented what I said. You did the same thing to Brian in the post that kicked off this exchange.

You're lying. Show me where I said I have a problem with someone drinking.

[Forty Two]

Can we at least admit that Ford's story evolved?

First it occurred in the mid-80s and then the early 1980s, and she settled on 1982 at the hearing. Changes her age from late teens to 15.

The number of people at the party changes.

The location of the party changes.

The layout of the interior of the house changes.

She's 15 in her latest version, and she is driven to a house (whose she doesn't know), by a person who she doesn't remember, and the party there was attended by people who don't have any recollection of it. She vaguely remembers going upstairs to go to the bathroom (why not use the bathroom downstairs? nobody knows, of course). Upstairs she remembers second by second details 100% and is assaulted but gets away and goes to the bathroom. She knows Kavanaugh and Judge went bouncing down the stairs and were talking to the other 3 people at the party. So, she "ran" past everyone without a word, ran out of the house, and was so relieved to be "on the street" that she has no idea who drove her home. Never mentioned it to anyone, and nobody at the party asked her why she left so suddenly. Never told anyone else about it. 30 years later, she says she brought it up to her husband because she wanted a second door on their house as an escape route, but the house already had a second front door which was added years before that for the purpose of allowing tenants to rent part of the house. Another door was not added in 2012, as she claimed. She says at that time the issue was raised with a psychologist because nobody could understand why she wanted the second front door (that already existed).

She is an activist - and is being represented pro bono by Democrat provided attorneys, and at the same time she is raising over a 1,000,000 on go fund me for expenses she doesn't have to pay.

She sends a letter to Diane Feinstein reporting the incident as her "civic duty" but wanting to remain anonymous. A professor with 3 degrees, including a PHD thinks she can influence the appointment of a supreme court justice with a confidential letter which won't ever be disclosed -- pull the other one, it has a bell on it. Only a complete fucking moron would think you can make that kind of allegation and have it remain untested, unexamined and undisclosed. Nobody can believe she wasn't fully aware that this was eventually going public, which is, of course, why she lawyered up and polygraphed during the confidentiality period. When the Democrats realized they would not be able to stop the Kavanaugh nomination, they nuked it with Dr. Ford, and the rest of this bandwagon bullshit.

Now Brett Kavanaugh not only assaulted one woman in high school, but he's a blackout drunk who routinely gropped and aggresssively assaulted women at parties, beat people up, was a mean drunk, and drugged/spiked punch with qualudes and grain alcohol and participated in gang raping of incapacitated women almost a dozen times that we know of.

And, the icing on the cake is.... "well it doesn't matter if none of it is true... his demeanor when faced with the avalanche of absolute bullshit is disqualifying...."

My response - everyone involved in that charade can go fuck themselves, and "Dr." Ford can be the first one to gang fuck herself, along with Ramirez and Swetnick, because they're fucking mean, awful human beings.

[Tero]

Bla bla bla. Ford turned into a slut (you said it, in so many words) after Brett’s magic fingers had done their work on her. Not before.

Mean sluts preventing Brett from turning into abortion banning judge!


You liberarians are so easy get all hurt and pissed off. I should do it more often. Missed opportunity. (Trump used you, same way, he pulled the right strings)

[Forty Two]

I didn't see Obama or his party as supporting a punitive justice system, did you?

Did they make it less punitive when they controlled the house and the senate - did they go on record wanting to decriminalize cocaine? Wouldn't that be Obama sitting on his ass while people are doing time for the same thing?

Like I said - I don't care if either of them did it. Do you agree?

Did you miss the bit where I asked how Bush sat on his ass as president of the party in love with a punitive justice system?

You just misrepresented what I said. You did the same thing to Brian in the post that kicked off this exchange.

You're lying. Show me where I said I have a problem with someone drinking.

I'm not lying. I'll go back and reread and see if I misunderstood.

Do you have a problem with Kavanaugh's drinking in high school and college? - assume it was heavy -and he often got drunk. What is your view of the relevance of the drinking allegations against Kavanaugh?

[Sean Hayden]

This is the problem I have with talking with you man. It's like you want me to deny reality.

You and I both know which party more supports the punitive justice system. Why get all weird about it? You know that when I'm talking about a burger flipper not being able to be drunk vs a pilot that what I'm talking about is the way people overlook the "misdeeds" of some while unfairly punishing others. You know that a big part of that in this context is because of the drug war, and you know who has supported the drug war most.

I don't care about Kavanaugh's drinking. I don't care about Bush using cocaine.

I do care that they would align themselves with a party that makes the lives of others who may enjoy these things without the benefit of rich parents and lawyers a living hell. That's fucked up man.

If you're going to say you don't care either then stand up to the elements of your party that do. Throw off that goddamned religious baggage already man. Let's find reasonable solutions to our problems.

[Forty Two]

The hypocrite judge that had all that trouble getting laid now wants to stop abortion as we know it. Trump promised!

See the problem? Drinking was merely a tool, a means to sex.

I have no problem with any Senator rejecting him for his view on abortion. I do have a problem with false and politically motivated allegations of criminal sexual conduct.

There is nothing wrong with drinking being a tool, a means to sex. That's pretty normal. It's not a problem, to me. Why don't you explain what you find problematic with it?

[Tero]

The hypocrite judge that had all that trouble getting laid now wants to stop abortion as we know it. Trump promised!

See the problem? Drinking was merely a tool, a means to sex.

I have no problem with any Senator rejecting him for his view on abortion. I do have a problem with false and politically motivated allegations of criminal sexual conduct.

There is nothing wrong with drinking being a tool, a means to sex. That's pretty normal. It's not a problem, to me. Why don't you explain what you find problematic with it?

The girl was 15 and Brett only starting on his alcoholism. She made no move, he forced her into a room, empowered by alcohol.

Now he is the pillar of society! Right wingers have been punishing us since we were hippies. Hypocricy.

Failed interview. Only a fellow groper, Trump, would keep him on.

[Forty Two]

This is the problem I have with talking with you man. It's like you want me to deny reality.

That's not my intent, so if that's what you think I want you to do, I assure you it's not. I'll try better to communicate in a way that assures you I do not want you to deny reality.

You and I both know which party more supports the punitive justice system. Why get all weird about it?

Both parties support the criminalization of cocaine, and both support punitive criminal justice systems. The GOP tends to be the more overtly "law and order" rhetoric party, but the Democratic Party is not far behind them. Did Obama not want cocaine criminalized? Where did he say that?

You know that when I'm talking about a burger flipper not being able to be drunk vs a pilot that what I'm talking about is the way people overlook the "misdeeds" of some while unfairly punishing others.

Yes, and since you were quoting me, and responding to me, it appeared that you were accusing me of doing just that, which I wasn't. I don't overlook anyone's misdeeds and then unfairly punish others. That's what I see happening to Kavanaugh. The same people that are trying to hang him for alleged conduct when he was a teenager, would (and do) overlook the misdeeds of those in their own party.

I can see someone being interested in whether someone is a rapist. But, when this thing devolved into an examination of how many beers Kavanaugh drank, and the implication (and sometimes outright literally statements) that if he drank heavily, he was more likely to have tried to rape Ford and just doesn't remember it -- it's getting to the point of absolute absurdity. If a pilot got drunk at parties in high school and college - and even last weekend when on vacation - i really wouldn't care. It's really a question of whether he's fit to fly.

You know, I've met judges in social contexts. The phrase "sober as a judge " is ironic. They drink like fish. Does that make them "unfit"? Some judges even recovered from ill-spent youths, where they spent time in gambling halls, drinking demon rum, and occasionally "stepping outside" to settle matters.

You know that a big part of that in this context is because of the drug war, and you know who has supported the drug war most.

What does it matter who supported it "the most?" Both parties - and Obama and Bush -- supported the punitive justice system as it relates to cocaine, and both of them did cocaine. Both sat on their asses in the White House while others sat in jail for the same conduct.

I give both a pass on it. Do you? Yes or no?

I don't care about Kavanaugh's drinking. I don't care about Bush using cocaine.

Agreed and agreed. Neither do I.

I do care that they would align themselves with a party that makes the lives of others who may enjoy these things without the benefit of rich parents and lawyers a living hell. That's fucked up man.

Which party doesn't do that? Do you think the Democrats have opposed the criminal justice reforms which gave us our present laws?

Can someone who drank and parties in high school and college, grow up and change their view on the propriety of their behavior? Does someone like this Democrat who was arrested for DUI in 1998 (and 8 other arrests) have to now be in favor of legalizing his offenses? Does he have to be in favor of legalizing anything he did that he didn't get arrested for? https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/06/politics ... index.html

If you're going to say you don't care either then stand up to the elements of your party that do. Throw off that goddamned religious baggage already man. Let's find reasonable solutions to our problems backed by evidence.

It's not my party. I'm not a registered Republican, and I oppose most Republicans. I support Trump as a departure from the traditional GOP. And, I am an atheist, and I have tried to get as many people as possible to throw off religious baggage.

What I won't stand for, and I hope you won't either, is the behavior that we've seen in the Democrat party over the last 2-3 weeks in relation to Kavanaugh. It's monstrous. Really monstrous. And, saying the GOP are monsters, too is not an answer. I agree. And, that's why it's so concerning, because next time it will be Democrat President with a qualified candidate being dragged through the mud, and what do you think the partisan Republicans will say? They'll say "oh, you wanted to 'believe the victim' when it was Kavanaugh -- don't you believe the victim now?" And, suddenly the Democrat partisans will be the champions of due process and rational skepticism.

I apply these principles equally.

What if the parties were reversed here? Ford was a staunch republican who leveled allegations against a democrat nominee - knnown partisan attorneys representing the accuser - funded by the Koch Bros. -- otherwise same allegations - how should they be handled?

[Forty Two]

The hypocrite judge that had all that trouble getting laid now wants to stop abortion as we know it. Trump promised!

See the problem? Drinking was merely a tool, a means to sex.

I have no problem with any Senator rejecting him for his view on abortion. I do have a problem with false and politically motivated allegations of criminal sexual conduct.

There is nothing wrong with drinking being a tool, a means to sex. That's pretty normal. It's not a problem, to me. Why don't you explain what you find problematic with it?

The girl was 15 and Brett only starting on his alcoholism. She made no move, he forced her into a room, empowered by alcohol.

Now he is the pillar of society! Right wingers have been punishing us since we were hippies. Hypocricy.

Failed interview. Only a fellow groper, Trump, would keep him on.

Was she 15? In her early versions, she was 17 or 18. But, whose counting, right? Not knowing that is an indication that the allegations of assault are true, right?

Was Brett an alcoholic? Funny, no information has been presented to support that at all.

She made no move? He forced her into a room? He wasn't there - this party never occurred.

[Sean Hayden]

I think it's good that they both grew up and gave up their drug use. But it would be better in my opinion if they were to also rethink our approach to dealing with those still using. --keep growing-- So, does someone who has been busted for cocaine need to support legalizing cocaine? Absolutely not. But I hope they are open to hearing from many people about alternative approaches to dealing with the problem of cocaine sales and use.

The Democrats have been pushing in many places for drug law reform and they have even succeeded in some. It matters a great deal then who is more for the punitive system and who isn't. I don't think the Republicans are responsible for the shift towards rehabilitation vs just prison anyway. I could be wrong.

As for Kavanaugh, I think it was right to allow Ford to give her testimony and that we shouldn't try to discredit her. This isn't a criminal court. I understand your concerns. That's why I said before that anyone who thinks knowing how to proceed from here is easy is either an idiot or a liar.

[Seabass]

Who hasn't done a bit of bar room brawling? It's normal behaviour, even for supreme court judges. Also, everyone lies too, so lying about it is ok as well.

Hey, I like beer. Do you like beer? Do you... DO YOU...??

Are we really going to suggest that Kavanaugh is the first SCOTUS Justice, President, Congressperson, who was in a bar room fight or got drunk? In Oz, they just have fistfights on Parliament floor - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldn ... fight.html

The Democrats recently were lauding the honorable career of John McCain, who they lamented was not the leader of the GOP of late -- so honorable - such a fearless, wonderful leader.... but when he was in the military and as a high school and college age young man he repeatedly got in fights and drank and the like.

John McCain and Hillary Clinton bragged about having a "drinking contest" in Estonia - doing shots of vodka.

John Adams drank hard cider for breakfast. William Henry Harrison sullied Martin Van Buren's name, calling him an alcoholic, and Van Buren used to drink so much he was nicknamed Blue Whisky Van and would drink solidly for days. Franklin Pierce, James Buchanan - both hard drinkers all their lives - not just as young men, but during their presidencies. Ulysses S Grant won the Civil War drunk.

Come the fuck on, people. Really? Has everyone gone fucking bonkers?

What is happening to everyone?

No one gives a fuck about the drinking.

If you actually think the drinking is the issue here, then you're a fucking moron.

But if you know the drinking isn't the real issue, but are trotting out this strawman anyway in order to "win" the argument, then you are a disingenuous liar.

Which is it?

[Tero]

If Kavanaughwas in high school he was 17, she was 15. Is there a math problem?

This hypocrite lookslike a Bill Clinton appointment. Liberal as far as his own behavior goes. Tight ass for modern teens.

[Forty Two]

Seabass - Look at what pervin wrote - and then look at what Brian wrote - that's what I'm responding to.

What are they talking about? Beers. A bit of bar room brawling. Did they refer to anything else? No.

There certainly are other issues besides his drinking - but pervin here and Brian both sarcastically referred to the bar room brawl and drinking allegations. Pervin sarcastically referred to as "normal" - meaning he's really suggesting it isn't normal.

Those posts were about drinking and brawling - that's why mine was.