Kavanaugh hearing

[Sean Hayden]

Remember girls, if you want to be taken seriously you can't act like the boys.

[Forty Two]

The Democrats have so sullied the integrity of the process

Are you sure about that? It might have started before the Kavanaugh thing...in fact, it might have been BOTH parties ramping up the stupid over the years, to see what sticks.

Everyone loves a lurid sex story. If people loved financial malfeasance as much, THAT would be the central story.

I have no respect for either party, nor is either one above a level of mendacity and dirty tricks. However, this is just obvious bullshit, taking advantage of the current zeitgeist that one cannot question the allegations of an alleged victim. Blasey Ford is full of shit, and Ramirez and Swetnick are so beyond full of shit that the Democrats are even distancing themselves from that crap.

[Sean Hayden]

Jesus christ, do either of you have an enemy? Have you ever? Suppose someone did something terrible to you and they were about to be promoted to a high office, would you have the guts to speak out about what they did?

That's what is happening here. You're making it all about Democrats vs Republicans. It just so happens this is the theater it is playing out in. But it can also be played out elsewhere and the situation even reversed. We could see a Democrat being accused of similar. When that happens will we have to put up with your constant whining? I wish you'd at least consider that a big part of the "it's all politics" is because for you it's all politics. She's an inconvenience, a pain in the ass, wouldn't it be nice if she just wasn't there and we could get on with politics as usual? Ergo it's all politics, and presto she's not there!

No, okay, what evidence do you have then that this is a conspiracy? She contacted her senator. Would the right thing to do have been to ignore her? Was she not credible? I don't think they ran with it first thing did they?

[Forty Two]

LOL - they didn't know each other, and Ford has never claimed that Kavanaugh had anything to do with her decision to drink. At most, Ford herself claims to have only seen Brett Kavanaugh at this one party. They did not attend the same high school, and she was two years younger than him

[Sean Hayden]

What are you getting at dude? You're saying all these things like it destroys her credibility. I wish we had more women posters right about now.

How many of you or your friends in high school had to deal with the creepy older guys? You may not have even thought of them as creepy, I don't know. But you certainly know that being two years younger than someone in high school, or going to different schools means precisely squat regarding your likelihood of encountering them at parties.

[Forty Two]

Jesus christ, do either of you have an enemy? Have you ever? Suppose someone did something terrible to you and they were about to be promoted to a high office, would you have the guts to speak out about what they did?

Good, solid, question. I wouldn't need to speak out, because if he did something criminally terrible to me, I would have called the police. If it wasn't that much of a big deal and he was just an ass to me, or something, then I would likely just chalk it up to being teenagers.

From the balance of the facts, it doesn't look like these two were "enemies" anyway. Kavanaugh doesn't know who she is, he says. And, Leland Keyser who was supposedly at the party in question didn't remember ever meeting Kavanaugh. Both PJ and Mark Judge deny this party ever happened.

What I wouldn't do is bring something up for the first time after 30 years, especially when I don't remember 95% of the details. But, nobody would take that seriously anyway, and rightly so, since I'm male. Half the shit that I talk about with friends from high school and colleged are remembered differently by everyone involved anyway.

That's what is happening here. You're making it all about Democrats vs Republicans. It just so happens this is the theater it is playing out in. But it can also be played out elsewhere and the situation even reversed. We could see a Democrat being accused of similar. When that happens will we have to put up with your constant whining?

Not mine. I wouldn't want this to happen to a Democrat appointee. What we need is an honest discussion about sexual assault. Instead, it's all cliches and platitudes. We also need to understand that being skeptical of a claim of sexual assault under these circumstances is not peculiar to sexual assault. If someone said Kavanaugh embezzled funds from a charity he worked for 30 years ago, people wouldn't just "believe" the accuser. They'd ask for evidence. And, if Kavanaugh said "I never embezzled a penny" - and there was no actual evidence that he did anything - there would not be many people saying "well, the allegations are serious, so let's get some candidate who doesn't have this baggage...." We wouldn't hear too many people saying "this isn't a criminal investigation, so it doesn't matter if the allegations can't be proved..."

I wish you'd at least consider that a big part of the "it's all politics" is because for you it's all politics. She's an inconvenience, a pain in the ass, wouldn't it be nice if she just wasn't there and we could get on with politics as usual? Ergo it's all politics, and presto she's not there!

No, okay, what evidence do you have then that this is a conspiracy? She contacted her senator. Would the right thing to do have been to ignore her? Was she not credible? I don't think they ran with it first thing did they?

The problem is that they should have run with it first thing. If you get a bit of disqualifying information, you don't wait until the hearings end and it's about to be a confirmation vote to drop in information that you've had for two months.

Yes, she contacted her Senator. And, she told that Senator in her letter that she wanted it kept confidential and not told to the Senate committee, and otherwise not disclosed. She just wanted her Senator to know about it. That, of course, means the allegations cannot be tested or examined. We just have an allegation. What is supposed to be done with that? What's the intent? I want to tell what I know, but it must be accepted uncritically? What do we do with such allegations?

What should happen is this - if someone is a victim of a crime, they should report it, so that it can be addressed at or near the time. Why? Because forensics disappear and memories fade. Why isn't Ford surprised that Leland Keyser doesn't remember the party? Because, Ford says, nothing eventful happened to her there. Yes, indeed. You know why that's important? Because if someone had reported it in 1982, it's very likely Keyser would, in fact, have remembered it easily.

Now, nobody remembers it, even people like PJ and Keyser who have no reason to deny it, if it happened.

Not only do memories fade over time, but everyone knows that memories can change over time and our memories get worse and worse, not better and better. Even traumatic events - we keep hearing that the actual traumatic event is inarguable - it happened - because the brain focuses on that, and it's clear and perfect. But, the surrounding circumstances get lost -- so, that's why she remembers the assault, but not anything else - nothing, at least that can be verified.

she does remember SOME details - like "I only had one beer." That's good, so we accept that her memory was unaffected by alcohol. She also remembers that Brett was really drunk and had been drinking well before he even got to the party. That she remembers. Somehow, she can't remember that she got there first, or he got there first, though. But, those are good details to include - she was sober - he was bombed. Perfect. Perfect and unfalsifiable.

[Tero]

From the balance of the facts, it doesn't look like these two were "enemies" anyway.

date rape
very common

[Cunt]

The Democrats have so sullied the integrity of the process

Are you sure about that? It might have started before the Kavanaugh thing...in fact, it might have been BOTH parties ramping up the stupid over the years, to see what sticks.

Everyone loves a lurid sex story. If people loved financial malfeasance as much, THAT would be the central story.

I have no respect for either party, nor is either one above a level of mendacity and dirty tricks. However, this is just obvious bullshit, taking advantage of the current zeitgeist that one cannot question the allegations of an alleged victim. Blasey Ford is full of shit, and Ramirez and Swetnick are so beyond full of shit that the Democrats are even distancing themselves from that crap.

The only one I feel ok accusing of being full of nasty bullshit is Feinstein. The rest get a pass because there simply isn't enough reason to disbelieve anything either said.

[Cunt]

From the balance of the facts, it doesn't look like these two were "enemies" anyway.

date rape
very common

How often have you done it yourself?

How often have you witnessed it yourself?

If your answer is greater than zero in either case, I would like to ask some follow-up questions.

[Sean Hayden]

I wouldn't need to speak out, because if he did something criminally terrible to me, I would have called the police.

Not good enough, you also need to be able to consider what is okay for others to do in any given situation. So, is it okay that she didn't call the police but would like to say something now? I say that it's perfectly fine, and even good given the importance of his position.

It would have been better to have had this happen sooner. It is unfortunate that it is happening now. It is difficult to know how to proceed. Anyone who says that it is easy is a liar or an idiot.

[Cunt]

Jesus christ, do either of you have an enemy? Have you ever? Suppose someone did something terrible to you and they were about to be promoted to a high office, would you have the guts to speak out about what they did?

That's what is happening here. You're making it all about Democrats vs Republicans. It just so happens this is the theater it is playing out in. But it can also be played out elsewhere and the situation even reversed. We could see a Democrat being accused of similar. When that happens will we have to put up with your constant whining? I wish you'd at least consider that a big part of the "it's all politics" is because for you it's all politics. She's an inconvenience, a pain in the ass, wouldn't it be nice if she just wasn't there and we could get on with politics as usual? Ergo it's all politics, and presto she's not there!

No, okay, what evidence do you have then that this is a conspiracy? She contacted her senator. Would the right thing to do have been to ignore her? Was she not credible? I don't think they ran with it first thing did they?

If someone committed a serious crime against you, would you wait for such a promotion to report it? Or would you feel it was your responsibility to report it immediately?

Serious question.

[Cunt]

I wouldn't need to speak out, because if he did something criminally terrible to me, I would have called the police.

Not good enough, you also need to be able to consider what is okay for others to do in any given situation. So, is it okay that she didn't call the police but would like to say something now? I say that it's perfectly fine, and even good given the importance of his position.

It would have been better to have had this happen sooner. It is unfortunate that it is happening now. It is difficult to know how to proceed. Anyone who says that it is easy is a liar or an idiot.

Should we all seek out your high-school chums, and look for accusations against you?

If we find some, should we accept them uncritically? Or is that only the case if you are up for a big promotion?

[Sean Hayden]

I wouldn't need to speak out, because if he did something criminally terrible to me, I would have called the police.

Not good enough, you also need to be able to consider what is okay for others to do in any given situation. So, is it okay that she didn't call the police but would like to say something now? I say that it's perfectly fine, and even good given the importance of his position.

It would have been better to have had this happen sooner. It is unfortunate that it is happening now. It is difficult to know how to proceed. Anyone who says that it is easy is a liar or an idiot.

Should we all seek out your high-school chums, and look for accusations against you?

If we find some, should we accept them uncritically? Or is that only the case if you are up for a big promotion?

The ones who aren't dead or in prison you mean?

Yes, absolutely you should only care if I'm being promoted to a high office. I mean isn't a big reason many of us will never run for office the skeletons in our closet? Some guys act like it should never weigh them down, and for some it never does. --god playing favorites if you ask me

[Sean Hayden]

Jesus christ, do either of you have an enemy? Have you ever? Suppose someone did something terrible to you and they were about to be promoted to a high office, would you have the guts to speak out about what they did?

That's what is happening here. You're making it all about Democrats vs Republicans. It just so happens this is the theater it is playing out in. But it can also be played out elsewhere and the situation even reversed. We could see a Democrat being accused of similar. When that happens will we have to put up with your constant whining? I wish you'd at least consider that a big part of the "it's all politics" is because for you it's all politics. She's an inconvenience, a pain in the ass, wouldn't it be nice if she just wasn't there and we could get on with politics as usual? Ergo it's all politics, and presto she's not there!

No, okay, what evidence do you have then that this is a conspiracy? She contacted her senator. Would the right thing to do have been to ignore her? Was she not credible? I don't think they ran with it first thing did they?

If someone committed a serious crime against you, would you wait for such a promotion to report it? Or would you feel it was your responsibility to report it immediately?

Serious question.

Answered above --but just to reiterate, cause I like to read myself so much -- it's also important to be able to consider what is okay for others to do.

[Tero]

From the balance of the facts, it doesn't look like these two were "enemies" anyway.

date rape
very common

How often have you done it yourself?

How often have you witnessed it yourself?

If your answer is greater than zero in either case, I would like to ask some follow-up questions.

You have to be kidding. I was not drunk till 20s and my women experience is nearly the minimum. You are doing the Kavanaugh thing
Senator: Have you ever blacked out while drunk?
Kavanaugh: have you?