Kavanaugh hearing

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Forty Two
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Forty Two » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:27 pm

pErvinalia wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:47 pm
Forty Two wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:40 pm
Sean Hayden wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:11 pm

:lol: --you're reaching now
How so? According to her, she wasn't being raped. I mean, there is a difference between legs-akimbo-cock-thrusting and "drunk teenager gropes your tits," isn't there? I've had girls grope by cock and balls at college parties. I don't consider that "being raped." Heck, I don't even consider it sexual assault, even if the girl had sex on her mind and even if I didn't want to be touched at the time.
It clearly is sexual assault. Whether you choose to prosecute is a different matter.
It's not "being raped." All rapes are sexual assaults, not all sexual assaults are rapes.

I don't consider it sexual assault, because even if I wasn't asking to be touched or didn't get consent to be touched, at the time I didn't care that they touched me. It was more like someone smacking an ass, even though they didn't ask for it. There is not a clear line there - if there were, than every football coach who hit a player on the ass was committing a sexual assault.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Forty Two » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:29 pm

Svartalf wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:48 am
I hear the hearing is set for Friday, SC Justice kavanaugh, here ye come
Isn't the hearing tomorrow? I think the vote is tentatively set for Friday.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Svartalf » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:35 pm

You're right
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Forty Two » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:44 pm

Seabass wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:19 pm
Padma Lakshmi: I Was Raped at 16 and I Kept Silent
I understand why a woman would wait years to disclose a sexual assault.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/25/opin ... -rape.html
I, too, understand why crime victims sometimes prefer to keep silent. There are reasons, and it doesn't just apply to sexual assault or rape victims. Mugging victims. Robbery victims. General assault and battery victims. Often the process of reporting the crime, disclosure of what happened, embarrassing facts of where one might have been, what one might have done, etc., and the entire prosecution process can be daunting, embarrassing and humiliating for someone who was victimized. Sure.

That does not, however, change the fact that reporting it timely is better than not reporting it timely. Why? Because that's when memories are freshest, forensics are most available, witnesses are most available, and investigations can be most fruitful. Why do the police say you should report a missing person sooner rather than later? Because the chance of solving the crime is more likely sooner than later.

If a person's house was robbed by a neighbor or friend, wouldn't people say that the crime should be reported? Why? Because the chance of solving the crime is better sooner rather than later. And, if one waited 5 years, and then tried to report it, people would reasonably ask "why did you not report it sooner?" There may well be a good answer to that question. Maybe the items stolen were of an embarrassing nature. Maybe it was only recently discovered that a valuable item was stolen then. Who knows? No matter what the reason, though, it's better to report it early.

And, regardless of how much we understand the reason someone might want to keep a crime under wraps, the reality is that it's not just crime victims who sometimes don't report things timely. People who are lying or mistaken about being the victim of a crime, or about the person they are now accusing, also do not report crimes timely. So, not only is proof and investigation more difficult later, but when a crime is reported years later AND the late report coincides with a political, economic, or personal motive to fabricate, there is a legitimate question about the the allegation.

This has nothing to do with what most people do or don't do. Who lies most. What the rate of lying is among different populations. Etc. This is just the reality of evidence, proof, investigation, etc. There is nothing sexist about asking "why didn't you report this earlier?"

If an activist makes an allegation about someone that happens to be their political opponent at an opportune time to torpedo that opponent in some way, it's not unreasonable to question why now is the first he or she said anything about it.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Forty Two » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:48 pm

pErvinalia wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:58 pm
Forty Two wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:09 pm

And, how about folks find out who these antifa dickheads are, and hound them out of the restaurants they go to? Tell them they have no safe place to go to. Shout them down, while they're with their families. The more they do this, I think there are more and more people who will be getting ready to put these dickheads in their place.
If they did that they'd be outing themselves as fascists/fascist-sympathisers. Not something that tends to be viewed too well.
That's the point I'm making, albeit obliquely. Yesterday, Ted Cruz and his wife were hounded out of a restaurant (almost violently and certainly threateningly) by harassing antifa scumbags. If that's the tactic those scumbags want to use, then one might contemplate finding out who those folks are, and when they go to their local coffee shop, hound them right back. That kind of thing hasn't been happening, as far as i can see, but I am sure there are people who are starting to get more than a little ticked off at the fact that these antifa douches still get favorable press when they are busy harassing people, and if the same conduct were directed toward them or toward left leaning politicians, there would be a completely different portrayal of it.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Forty Two » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:52 pm

pErvinalia wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:02 pm


Take your pills. Apart from forgetting the "n't" at the end of "could", there's nothing at all controversial in what i said.
You're right - memory can be shit, but Cunt is also right that overall memory is shit in the sense that it is malleable and often inaccurate.



36 years doesn't help.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Tero » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:15 pm

Well, it’s not like the witnesses will send Kavanaugh to jail or execution! One reason I do not trust witnesses in criminal cases if the forensics say otherwise.

But we are just choosing a candidate and weeding out bad eggs. Republicans, send us a more human but less dick waggling candidate!

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Forty Two » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:18 pm

Image Image
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Tero » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:25 pm

He will be Bork II. Just go back to being the asshole he ever was at his present level. Hypocrite dick waggler.

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Sean Hayden » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:28 pm

I guess you're one of the crazies you talked about minimizing then 42?

Don't bother, I'll just call it denial. :biggrin:
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Forty Two » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:39 pm

Tero wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:15 pm
Well, it’s not like the witnesses will send Kavanaugh to jail or execution! One reason I do not trust witnesses in criminal cases if the forensics say otherwise.

But we are just choosing a candidate and weeding out bad eggs. Republicans, send us a more human but less dick waggling candidate!
Do you really, honestly, not see that whether he is a dick waggling candidate is precisely the allegation that has not yet been established?

You're begging the question here. Blasey Ford says he did something. He says he didn't. If you're suggesting that the only proper candidates are those who don't get accusations thrown that them, then who shall 'scape whipping?

Do you really think that the Republicans don't have financed donors ready to enlist activists to reveal late-spun allegations at the next Democrat nominee? You think that if the new rule is going to be "some person said you did X 30 years ago" that this tactic won't be used to gore the other side's ox?

Maybe that would be the case. Allegations of sexual impropriety or assault do appear to be portrayed quite differently in the media when leveled at Democrats. The strategy here may be to hang Kavanaugh with these unsubstantiated allegations, and then later, if an unsubstantiated allegation is leveled at a Democrat President's nominee, the media will present the reasonable and sound criticisms of the late-made, uncorroborated allegations "without evidence..."
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Forty Two » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:40 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:28 pm
I guess you're one of the crazies you talked about minimizing then 42?

Don't bother, I'll just call it denial. :biggrin:
Not sure what you're referring to...
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Tero » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:05 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:39 pm
Tero wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:15 pm
Well, it’s not like the witnesses will send Kavanaugh to jail or execution! One reason I do not trust witnesses in criminal cases if the forensics say otherwise.

But we are just choosing a candidate and weeding out bad eggs. Republicans, send us a more human but less dick waggling candidate!
Do you really, honestly, not see that whether he is a dick waggling candidate is precisely the allegation that has not yet been established?

You're begging the question here. Blasey Ford says he did something. He says he didn't. If you're suggesting that the only proper candidates are those who don't get accusations thrown that them, then who shall 'scape whipping?

Do you really think that the Republicans don't have financed donors ready to enlist activists to reveal late-spun allegations at the next Democrat nominee? You think that if the new rule is going to be "some person said you did X 30 years ago" that this tactic won't be used to gore the other side's ox?

Maybe that would be the case. Allegations of sexual impropriety or assault do appear to be portrayed quite differently in the media when leveled at Democrats. The strategy here may be to hang Kavanaugh with these unsubstantiated allegations, and then later, if an unsubstantiated allegation is leveled at a Democrat President's nominee, the media will present the reasonable and sound criticisms of the late-made, uncorroborated allegations "without evidence..."
He is not going to jail. This is not ”beyond reasonable doubt”. This is just ”enough doubt.” Senators vote on whatever basis they have. It’s not a jury with a foreman getting a concensus.

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Tero » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:07 pm

Move on! Present us another corporation loving Trump defending judge that has no dick waggling frat boy history!

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Forty Two » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:38 pm

Tero wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:05 pm

He is not going to jail. This is not ”beyond reasonable doubt”. This is just ”enough doubt.” Senators vote on whatever basis they have. It’s not a jury with a foreman getting a concensus.
That's different than what you said, which was that he is a dick waggling candidate. You suggested a less dick waggling candidate would be better. That begs the question.

Sure, Senators vote on whatever basis they have - they can just not like the cut of his jib. However, bringing up the criminal standard throughout this just a red herring. Logic and reason suggest that a claim by a person about an event or a phenomenon is not accepted at their word. We don't do it in any other context. We don't accept the uncorroborated word of an alleged victim even in a civil court based on a preponderance of the evidence.

Just because the beyond a reasonable doubt standard is not required by law does not mean that the allegation has been proved to some lesser standard. The information we have now would not even rise to the level of "probable cause" to get an arrest warrant. Probable cause is less than "probably" - it's less than a preponderance of the evidence. Probable cause just means "reasonable grounds for making or pressing a charge" (which later would need to be proved by a higher standard in order to obtain a conviction). It is not reasonable gounds under US law to make a charge or to indict someone based on a 36 year old vague allegation of something happening at some time (not sure of the year), in some place (not sure of the place).

Based on what you know, would you vote no on Kavanaugh, if you were a Senator? Or, let's say this was an allegation against Elena Kagin that in 1982, when she was 22, she statutorily raped a 14 year old boy in her neighborhood. The boy never mentioned it until 2010, it was never reported at the time, never reported or mentioned to a friend or family member, but it came out in psychological therapy sessions in 2008, without naming Elena Kagan, and then in 2010, the accuser hired a lawyer who was a long-time Republican operative and funding was being provided by Republican donors. The boy remembered that it happened somehwere around 1982, but wasn't sure. He couldn't recall where it happened. He did say that Elena Kagan had an accomplice, maneuvred the boy into a house (that he vaguely recalls) where the conduct took place. The accomplice states unequivocally it never happened.

Is that enough for you to want to require the Democrats to pick a different candidate?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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