Starbucks coffee. Any colour but black.

[mistermack]

Hey, it's only golf, and we all know that there's good people and fine folks on both sides.

However, the golf example does raise something in relation to the Starbucks thing - if the police's intervention on the golf course is a public order matter, such that attending officers are obliged to make a public order assessment, then what assessment did the attending officers make in relation to the two water-drinking guys at Starbucks? What law had they broken to justify them being arrested, handcuffed, and detained (ultimately without charge)? It surely wasn't an assessment made on the basis of a public order offence having taken place was it?

If you peacefully walked into my house, and refused to leave, is that a public order offence?
It's the same thing.
You leave the owner with no alternative, other than tolerate it for as long as you choose to remain, or get physical.
The other option is to call the police, which is the sensible thing to do.
They can view it as conduct liable to cause a breach of the peace.

[Scot Dutchy]

Why did you let them in in the first place? Bloody more aggression. You live a very tense life.

[mistermack]

Rude it is, but I am still waiting to hear of whites having the cops set on them for playing too slowly.

It's the consequences of slow play that brings them in, not the slow play itself. But of course, you knew that, but decided to misrepresent it.

It's the consequences of slow play that brings them in, provided the slow players are not white. No misrepresentation there. There must be some awfully slow white golfers too, don't you think? Can you cite an instance of cops being called in on them?

Not being racial, it wouldn't get reported.

[Forty Two]

That's the thing. It's 45 years of this crap, and Forty Two's hand waving notwithstanding, those DOJ investigations showed real discrimination against minorities. Racist is as racist does.

Only, it's not 45 years of this crap. All those articles are new. The Wikipedia article, for example, only came into being in January of 2018. The issue of racism only came up during the election. That's because it wasn't an issue before.

Every Fortune 500 company has been sued for race and sex discrimination, including by the EEOC, at one point or another. These allegations are a dime a dozen, and the fact of an administrative action or civil case having been filed and allegations having been made does not prove or even imply guilt. It is easy to file these claims.

The allegations against Trump are vage and ambiguous at best - some are third hand reports by parties with axes to grind - and there was a concerted effort once he announced to sully his character so that he would lose the election.

[Forty Two]

A lovely game. Anglo-Saxons cant play without aggregation.

What about the Nordics? The Mediterreneans? The Africans? Some race must be able to play without aggregation.

[Forty Two]

Slow play is fucking rude, and people of any colour deserve to be kicked off the course for it.

When you are on a busy golf course, you are in a queue of up to 72 people depending on where you are. And if you play slow, you are holding up all of the people behind you.

I used to play with an Irish guy called Paddy, who had high blood pressure and heart problems. He would go absolutely mental, if the group in front were playing slow. (he has a hell of a temper).
I remember once, we were being held up constantly by the group in front, when the group behind started shouting at US for holding them up. He went so red with anger, I really thought he was going to die right there in front of us.

There have been really nasty fights on the course, over slow play, so I'm not surprised the police were called. It wouldn't be the first time, or the last.

I partly agree and partly disagree with your assessment here.

I have a suspicion why this got out of hand here - the key factor in the news articles about it, I think, is that this is occurring at hole 2, and they skipped hole 3 to try to speed up. This is very telling as to what this grouping was doing on the golf course, which is not playing golf. They had a tee time, and presumably teed off on time when the previous group was on the first green, right? So, somehow, between teeing off on the very first hole, and teeing off on the second hole, they took a break. A break on hole 2? Seems strange. How long was the break? How long did it take them to from the tee box of hole one to the tee box of hole 2?

Usually, slow play does not materialize until a few holes into the course, as slower players start to drag the play back.

So, you have these regular golfers teeing off behind the group of ladies. They are politically connected people in the area, and also well-connected in the club, because the parents of the one guy doing a lot of the yelling are co-owners of the club. So, this young guy doing the scolding of the ladies is the kid of the owners. They probably approached the first tee box and saw the group of fat ladies in front of them, and were immediately reacting like, "oh, Jesus .... it's gonna be a loooooonggg day..." (and that's not racist, necessarily, it's more sexist if anything because anyone who regularly golfs knows women tend to play slower - it's a common complaint). So, then the ladies take a break before hole 2 and that probably set these guys off. They then walked up to them, according to the articles I read, twice, to ask them to speed up. It's not uncommon for guys to get all grouchy about slow players in front of them, especially chicks, who have the reputation of playing super-slow. I can definitely see the guys going "oh, fucking no, I'm not playing behind these fat ladies all day..."

I doubt they approached them politely, and if they didn't that probably caused a reaction in the ladies, who probably also did not react politely. Only we apparently don't have any video of that.

Anyway, that's speculation, but I have a feeling this is ego from the guys playing behind these ladies, who got themselves all worked up when they saw what the 18 holes had in store for them - waiting behind these chattering folks who don't really care enough about their game to worry about skipping hole 3. That doesn't justify their behavior, though, because....

...in my view calling the police was ridiculous and unnecessary. What should have happened is that the guys should have asked to play through. If the ladies refused, they should have been patient as they got an employee of the course to ask a manager to address the situation and compel the ladies to let the guys play through. But, I bet if they asked politely to play through, the ladies would have said o.k. It's not a big deal to play through.

I don't know if it's racism. This one strikes me as possibly indirectly racist -- but, I bet it's the pot boiling over of a few alpha male guys getting their egos involved and allowing themselves to get overly upset about a group of fat ladies playing lazy golf.

EDIT - I read some other material, and it appears I may be wrong about the slow play being right when they first teed off. Apparently, this occurred after the 9th hole, which makes sense. I also read where the ladies were playing within the estimated time for completing the course, and the issue seems to be that they took a longer than allowed break. If that's the main issue, then the complaining party should have just asked to play through, or dealt with it. The more I read about this, the guys complaining seem to be more clearly in the wrong here, based on what's been written.

[Forty Two]

Slow play is fucking rude, and people of any colour deserve to be kicked off the course for it.

Bullshit. Just play through.

I used to play with an Irish guy called Paddy, who had high blood pressure and heart problems. He would go absolutely mental, if the group in front were playing slow. (he has a hell of a temper).
I remember once, we were being held up constantly by the group in front, when the group behind started shouting at US for holding them up. He went so red with anger, I really thought he was going to die right there in front of us.

That's his issue. Some meditation or weed will sort that out.

There have been really nasty fights on the course, over slow play, so I'm not surprised the police were called. It wouldn't be the first time, or the last.

Yes. People who lose their tempers and cause fights on the golf course should have the police called on them and be thrown off. But NOT people who have paid to play a game and do so at their own pace.

I must agree with you here. If there is ultimately an ongoing slow play problem, when the day is done and the ladies come off the course, they can be talked to about slow play - warned - or if they've already been warned or are otherwise a problem, they can be kicked out of the club. This is not a law enforcement issue, based on the facts presented.

[Forty Two]

Yes. People who lose their tempers and cause fights on the golf course should have the police called on them and be thrown off. But NOT people who have paid to play a game and do so at their own pace.

You obviously know nothing about it, which is par for the course.

You can only play through if you are invited, and if that happens, the people behind are held up even more.

The conditions of play are that you behave reasonably, and slow play is not reasonable. It's up to YOU to keep up, not others to adjust to your pace.

If you can't play, you should stay off.

There is no hard-and-fast rule here about how fast one must play. This is a matter of etiquette. Playing through is the remedy if a foursome ahead of you is slow. This happens a lot when a twosome is playing behind a foursome because often a twosome moves a lot faster than a foursome. So, the ones behind just ask to play through, and the ones ahead say "sure go ahead" and everyone moves on.

If the ones ahead are being dicks, and not letting the players play through, then the management should be called to mediate. However, you can't forcibly remove someone in this situation. Worst case, the play would go on until the end of the 18 holes, and then the issue of continued presence on the course could be addressed then.

We don't pay cops to police private golf clubs, absent commission of a crime. A member is not trespassing just because the owner says for them to leave. That all depends on the rules of the club and is more of a civil matter than a criminal one.

[pErvinalia]

You need the dyke mindset to play golf..

[Sean Hayden]

--Russian trolls

[Scot Dutchy]

You need the dyke mindset to play golf..

Some golf courses here are on dykes.

[pErvinalia]

There's a couple of dykes that I wouldn't mind getting on...

[Scot Dutchy]

A nice sea dyke.



Or a softer river dyke.

[Joe]

That's the thing. It's 45 years of this crap, and Forty Two's hand waving notwithstanding, those DOJ investigations showed real discrimination against minorities. Racist is as racist does.

Only, it's not 45 years of this crap. All those articles are new. The Wikipedia article, for example, only came into being in January of 2018. The issue of racism only came up during the election. That's because it wasn't an issue before.

Every Fortune 500 company has been sued for race and sex discrimination, including by the EEOC, at one point or another. These allegations are a dime a dozen, and the fact of an administrative action or civil case having been filed and allegations having been made does not prove or even imply guilt. It is easy to file these claims.

The allegations against Trump are vage and ambiguous at best - some are third hand reports by parties with axes to grind - and there was a concerted effort once he announced to sully his character so that he would lose the election.

More hand waving and ad hominem twaddle from you Forty Two. I'd be embarrassed to make such a weak argument. The damning facts are well documented, and contrary to your bullshit assertion, not new. Of course, the newness of the articles has no bearing on their accuracy, but nice try at obfuscation.

This is not "vage and ambiguous at best"

I’ve waded through 1,021 pages of documents from that legal battle, and they are devastating. Donald Trump was then president of the family real estate firm, and the government amassed overwhelming evidence that the company had a policy of discriminating against blacks, including those serving in the military.

To prove the discrimination, blacks were repeatedly dispatched as testers to Trump apartment buildings to inquire about vacancies, and white testers were sent soon after. Repeatedly, the black person was told that nothing was available, while the white tester was shown apartments for immediate rental.

A former building superintendent working for the Trumps explained that he was told to code any application by a black person with the letter C, for colored, apparently so the office would know to reject it. A Trump rental agent said the Trumps wanted to rent only to “Jews and executives,” and discouraged renting to blacks.

Racist is as racist does.

[Animavore]

Jesus! What a scumbag.