Starbucks coffee. Any colour but black.

[pErvinalia]

[Forty Two]

think the idea that Trump voters were shooting themselves in the economic foot so that they could stick it to the darkies is a message Trump opponents want to create and foster, but it's not what I see going on in the real world.

In the real world, the racist segment of the USA electorate had a choice between Hilary and Donald.

Not so. A lot of extreme folks like to vote for the various other candidates on ballots. Other parties have been dubbed the racist parties - like the Constitution Party, and even the Libertarian party. Racists might be just as likely to vote for third parties, or perhaps not vote.

[Forty Two]

He did not. His Russian friends did it.

Oh, yes, we can't forget about the Russian facebook ads with Jesus arm-wrestling Hillary Clinton, and Russian paid commenters on social media.

Mueller will investigate that after he's done sifting through Trump's contracts, settlements and tax returns.

[Seabass]

I made no assumptions or misrepresentations. His views on Hillary are not relevant to the issue.

The issue is whether a person could be a good person if they support a bad person who is accused of rape or being a racist.

The prime example is Bill Clinton, who has been accused of both racism and rape. Yet, nobody, including Animavore, suggests that having supported or supporting Bill Clinton makes one a bad person. Likewise, with Hillary, she praised a Byrd who is clearly a racist. So the question is, can Hillary be a good person if she supports Byrd?

It doesn't matter what Animavore thinks of Hillary. All he needs to say is that she can be a good person and support Byrd, or she can't be. That's the question posed to him.

I have seen him post pro-Hillary comments on this forum, so the notion that he supported Hillary Clinton is not really arguable. He supported her as a candidate. He stated: "Hillary wasn't a snake oil merchant tapping into the hate, fear, and prejudice of her audience and trying to sell them fast and easy (and incredibly stupid) solutions." If you search his posts for Hillary, you find nothing but positive statements about her, and nothing but negative statements about Trump. http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... y#p1680946 and http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... y#p1680944 - asking if there are any [other] Hillary Supporters here - http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... y#p1679671 Here he wants to see Clinton not only win, but publicly beat up Trump and humiliate him: http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... y#p1678846 Expressing support for Hillary's policies - http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... y#p1678038 Expressing that Hillary's health issues don't affect her mental faculties -- http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... y#p1678001 - posting pro-Hillary cartoons - http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... y#p1677808 Here he is telling Trump supporters that their candidate is defeated and they must "accept it like a man..." LOL (that's rather an interesting take... I guess when Hillary actually lost, the "accept it like a man" rule went by the wayside, like Hillary's "accept the results of the election no matter what..." mantra). http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... y#p1673392 Expressing the view that supporting Hillary Clinton is what makes sense -- http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... y#p1672367 Suck it, Trump supporting idiots! Says animavore when the polls show his favorite girl, Hillary, in the lead: http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... y#p1672361 Saying Hillary defeated Trump in a debate: http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... y#p1661074 Literally stating that he wants Hillary to win so the Democrats stay in power - http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... y#p1658274 Here he is celebrating a Fox News piece exhorting Republicans to vote for Hillary Clinton - http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... y#p1656107 Here he is not only supporting Hillary, but suggesting that the Republican Party should be shut down. http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... y#p1645334

Idiot. Hillary supported Byrd after he had renounced his racist views. Even if we accept for the sake of argument that Byrd lied and that he remained a racist right up until the end, it would be either stupid or intellectually dishonest to suggest that she knew he continued to secretly espouse racist views.

[Forty Two]

Idiot?

Look, the issue here is whether one can be a good person and support a racist. Byrd clearly was a racist, right up until Hillary was First Lady, and the guy had been in the Senate for 35 years at that point. Hillary knew who that guy was, as everyone else did. And, it's wonderful that you accept his conversion, but you and Animavore don't even accept Trump's denial of being a racist now -- he never did what Byrd is accused of doing, has never had a problem hiring or working with African Americans (in management positions), the only evidence people present about him being a racist is his his opposition to illegal immigration and his statements that bad people are coming in from Mexico illegally, which they are.

Yet, I and others who favor Trump over Hillary can't possibly be good people because we don't ignore his denial of being a racist. But, Hillary can be a good person because she accepts Byrd's denial of being a racist, anymore.

[Animavore]

There was an hilarious Starbucks comment by Black Panther's sister in Infinity War which seemed suspiciously timely, but obviously by accident. The movie was already produced they couldn't've known.

[LucidFlight]

The movie was already produced they couldn't've known.

Unless it's part of a... conspiracy.

[Brian Peacock]

[Seabass]

the only evidence people present about him being a racist is his his opposition to illegal immigration and his statements that bad people are coming in from Mexico illegally, which they are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_vi ... nald_Trump
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... acist.html
http://www.newsweek.com/trumps-full-lis ... ers-779061
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... mp-is.html
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-t ... story.html
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/e ... story-race

[Animavore]

Dying here.

[Hermit]

the only evidence people present about him being a racist is his his opposition to illegal immigration and his statements that bad people are coming in from Mexico illegally, which they are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_vi ... nald_Trump
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... acist.html
http://www.newsweek.com/trumps-full-lis ... ers-779061
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... mp-is.html
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-t ... story.html
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/e ... story-race

Forty Two will return shortly and explain to you, point by point (there are 278 of them, so be prepared for a longish post) why none, yes none, not a single statement by Trump is racist. I'll summarise on his behalf:

One: He keeps getting quoted out of context.
Two: His statements are misinterpreted.
Three: When Trump refers to, say, Mexicans, he does not refer to them as a race but as a society.

Checkmate, lefty.

[Joe]

Regarding Byrd...the old cracker's been dead for almost 8 years. Dis him all you want, but get the verb tense right.

Yeah, it's apropos of nothin'. I just wanted to use that smilie.

As for Trump, racist is as racist does. Has he commented on James Shaw's courage in breaking up that Waffle House shooting? Perhaps he felt there were "some very fine people on both sides" of that incident. I've known many racists that weren't in the Klan.

Racists don't comment on murders? There were 17,000 homicides in the US in 2016. Probably about the same in 2017. Victims were of all races, colors and creeds, and so were the perpetrators. Presidents tend not to comment on them unless there is something extraordinary about them.

When you start with the assumption that a person is a racist, anything he or she does or doesn't do becomes indicative of that racism.

Regarding the "good people on both sides" he's talking about the left vs right debate in general. He's not saying there are good people in the Klan, and he's not saying there are good people in ANTIFA. He's saying there are good people on both sides.

What a lame argument Forty Two. The murder thing is a total strawman, since I was talking about a black man's heroism in a widely reported mass shooting. You go on to presume an assumption on my part and interpret Trump's meaning all based on your unsupported say so. This reliance on fallacious reasoning and lack of evidence is counterproductive, and doesn't further your defense of Trump. It only helps to show your opponents that you're not honest.

As I said, racist is as racist does and Trump has a long history of racist behavior.

Remember our Birther in Chief?
How about the DOJ housing discrimination suits in the '70's?

I’ve waded through 1,021 pages of documents from that legal battle, and they are devastating. Donald Trump was then president of the family real estate firm, and the government amassed overwhelming evidence that the company had a policy of discriminating against blacks, including those serving in the military.

To prove the discrimination, blacks were repeatedly dispatched as testers to Trump apartment buildings to inquire about vacancies, and white testers were sent soon after. Repeatedly, the black person was told that nothing was available, while the white tester was shown apartments for immediate rental.

A former building superintendent working for the Trumps explained that he was told to code any application by a black person with the letter C, for colored, apparently so the office would know to reject it. A Trump rental agent said the Trumps wanted to rent only to “Jews and executives,” and discouraged renting to blacks.

Don't you remember this 4 Pinocchio gem?

When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

How about blacks in his casinos?

Brown also used to work in the casinos, at the Showboat, bussing tables, and at Trump’s Castle, stripping and waxing floors. When Donald and Ivana came to the casino, the bosses would order all the black people off the floor,” he said. “It was the eighties, I was a teen-ager, but I remember it: they put us all in the back.

Or this tidbit?

In 1991, a book by John O’Donnell, who had been president of the Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino in Atlantic City, quoted Trump as criticizing a black accountant and saying: “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.” O’Donnell wrote that for months afterward, Trump pressed him to fire the black accountant, until the man resigned of his own accord.

Trump eventually denied making those comments. But in 1997 in a Playboy interview, he conceded “the stuff O’Donnell wrote about me is probably true.”

Remember the Central Park Five?

When a Central Park jogger was brutally raped and beaten nearly to death in 1989, Donald Trump was at the front of the pack calling for literal blood. Four black teenagers and one Latino teenager were charged and jailed on shaky evidence after confessing to the crime under intense questioning, and two weeks after the attack, Trump took out a full-page ad in four city newspapers advocating for the reinstatement of the death penalty.

But the so-called Central Park Five were vindicated in 2002, when their convictions were vacated after a convicted murderer and rapist confessed to the crime — a confession that was corroborated by DNA evidence. (DNA was never found connecting the Central Park Five to the crime.) The Central Park Five were eventually awarded a $41 million settlement from New York City in 2014.

But over the decades, even as it became increasingly clear that the Central Park Five were innocent, Trump has continued to call for their deaths, and even criticized the city for its multi-million dollar settlement — all without any actual evidence that the Central Park Five were involved in the rape.

How about retweeting racists?
Remember Judge Curiel?

TAPPER: What does this have to do with his heritage?

TRUMP: I'll tell you what it has to do. I've had ruling after ruling after ruling that's been bad rulings, OK? I've been treated very unfairly. Before him, we had another judge. If that judge was still there, this case would have been over two years ago.
Let me just tell you, I've had horrible rulings, I've been treated very unfairly by this judge. Now, this judge is of Mexican heritage. I'm building a wall, OK? I'm building a wall. I am going to do very well with the Hispanics, the Mexicans --

Muslim ban anyone?
What does he mean by breeding?

There is a Revolution going on in California. Soooo many Sanctuary areas want OUT of this ridiculous, crime infested & breeding concept. Jerry Brown is trying to back out of the National Guard at the Border, but the people of the State are not happy. Want Security & Safety NOW!

Yeah, go ahead and defend him, but you're up against a preponderance of evidence to the contrary.
David Duke, the KKK newspaper, and the Daily Stormer all support him too.

Maybe they know something you don't want to admit.

I know it's an appeal to authority, but you've got to admit they know lot's more about racists than you.

[Seabass]

the only evidence people present about him being a racist is his his opposition to illegal immigration and his statements that bad people are coming in from Mexico illegally, which they are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_vi ... nald_Trump
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... acist.html
http://www.newsweek.com/trumps-full-lis ... ers-779061
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... mp-is.html
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-t ... story.html
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/e ... story-race

Forty Two will return shortly and explain to you, point by point (there are 278 of them, so be prepared for a longish post) why none, yes none, not a single statement by Trump is racist. I'll summarise on his behalf:

One: He keeps getting quoted out of context.
Two: His statements are misinterpreted.
Three: When Trump refers to, say, Mexicans, he does not refer to them as a race but as a society.

Checkmate, lefty.

Trump has a great relationship with The Blacks. That I can tell you.

[Brian Peacock]

Seabass,

Calling another forum member an "idiot", as you did in this post, goes against our prime directive, the 'Play Nice' rule. Consider this a REMINDER to avoid becoming too personal in your responses to others.

Yer Mods.

[Forty Two]

the only evidence people present about him being a racist is his his opposition to illegal immigration and his statements that bad people are coming in from Mexico illegally, which they are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_vi ... nald_Trump

Laugh all you want - but as you can tell by actually reading the wikipedia article, none of those allegations are literally racist. These are things, as the article points out, are considered by his opponents to be "racially charged." They are all like the Mexican illegal immigrant comment where he said "they're sending rapists..." and such. That is not "racist." There are a disproportionate number of criminals coming across illegally.

Another example is the 1973 suit in NYC by the EEOC. Companies get suid in those kind of actions all the time. It doesn't mean the company did anything wrong, and if he settled it without any admission, then there was never a determination. It's "possible" he did something racist - but, it's not itself evidence of that, because it's just as possible he did nothing wrong. And, even if his company did something wrong, it doesn't mean he personally did something wrong.

The list is all stuff like that. His comment about the Mexican-heritage of the judge, who was at some point associated with a bar association affiliated with La Raza (The Race), etc., if you construe it in the worst way, perhaps Trump meant something racist, but from Trump's perspective he was identifying a conflict of interest.

The other links cover basically the same list as wikipedia. Like the NY Times article. They accuse him of being preoccupied by "dark skinned immigrants" because of his Muslim ban comments. However, Islam is not a race, and most Muslims don't have "dark" skin. Arabs are white, and many Muslims are of a variety of different nationalities, some dark, some light, some medium. The assumption that Muslims are "dark" is itself racist. And the conflation of Islam with a "race" is typical of folks trying to make this kind of case.

The articles mention the "shithole countries" comment. Again, that's only racist by interpretation. Some countries are shithole countries, and that's not a racist comment to say that. It's indelicate, for sure. It's rude, yes. But, Somalia, for example, is a fucking shithole. Is that racist? Of course not.

Many of the comments they report, like in the Newsweek report, are by the "anonymous sources" from "people with knowledge" - not necessarily people who heard something directly. Newsweek also falsely reports that Trump "wouldn't rent to black people in the 1970s." That's not accurate, and was never determined to be the case. Trump denied it, and the allegations related primarily to the Trump company as run by his father, Fred Trump.

Newsweek claims that Warren, who falsely claimed to be Native American when she has no evident Native American heritage, was called Pocahontas, and that it's not Warren who is the racist for doing that, but it's Trump the racist for jokingly calling her Pocahontas.

They call Trump's statement that many African Americans were "living in hell" in inner cities a racist comment. Of course, that's not a racist comment. Some inner cities are helacious and it's a national embarrassment. For him to identify the problem is not racist.

These lists are just attempts to twist anything they possibly can into "racism."

If people want to take those comments and conclude he's racist. Fine. That's up to you. But the idea that you are rolling on the floor laughing because you post several links saying the same thing -- a list of not-actually-racist things that some people claim are "racially charged" or "dog whistles" doesn't prove your case.

Don't get me wrong. The guy is uncouth. He is rude. i would likely, I strongly suspect, not be able to work for him. He is abusive, it seems. He has that autocratic demeanor about him where wants everyone catering to him, and he demands his needs be met before he has to ask for them, and if you give him what he wants he's showering you with praise, but the one time you come up short he'll berate and bully you. He's a bully and mean bastard, a self-centered narcissist.

But, racist? No. Rude. Yes. A jerk. Yes. Awful person. Yes. But, the only color he's really concerned about is green, and he's an eminent pragmatist.