Celebrity Sexual Harassment Charge Sheet

[JimC]

Bullshit, I've always been judged for my choice of clothes. This guy proved nothing.

We're surrounded by twats 24/7, all of us.

Well I never have, in the sense of judgements from other people that have any real effect on me. Not that its important, but mention by either sex of clothes people were wearing when I was working was virtually always about female members of staff...

[Sean Hayden]

Really? Nobody even just busted your balls about your clothes? That's hard to believe. It's just so common, and that's just the shit you'd know about...

[pErvinalia]

I would have said something about that brown cardigan...

[Sean Hayden]

[laklak]

I have found a way to deal with criticism, particularly from co-workers or strangers. I just look them in the eye and say "Suck my dick". They generally leave me alone after that.

[JimC]

I would have said something about that brown cardigan...

I'll have you know it was universally admired as a signal that its wearer was a loveable but eccentric old Physics and maths nerd!

[Forty Two]

Given the way Trump is body shamed for his hands and penis, fat-shamed for being overweight, fashion-shamed for the way he dresses, shamed again for his hair and skin tone, talked down to, told he's stupid, and assumed to be incompetent at his job, he must be a woman. Nobody would ever treat a man like that.

But at least nobody has kick-started a political campaign off the back of disputing his parentage and nationality eh?

Yeah, Trump just had his name questioned, because his grandfather used a different one back in the old country.

Meh, anybody born under similar circumstances has such campaigns against them. John McCain was subjected to civil suits challenging his right to be President because he was born in the Panama Canal Zone. Ted Cruz had his right questioned because of his Canadian birth (and they were right about that - good thing he didn't come close, because that fucker was ineligible). And, Chester A. Arthur's political opponents claimed he was born in Canada and was ineligible to run. Congressmen in the 1960s questioned George Romney's right to be President. And Barry Goldwater's eligibility was questioned because he was born in the Arizona Territory before it was a State.

The fairness of it all always seems to depend on whose ox is being gored.

The Trump rollerball famously started on the back of his vociferous opposition to the presidency of someone he considered his social inferior. Which political aspirants kick started off their campaigns off the back of the claims and complaints mentioned above?

I'll need some proof for your premise there, that Trump started on the back of vociferous opposition to the Presidency of someone he considered his "social inferior." That sounds made up.

Trump didn't even start the birther movement. That came from the Clinton camp, and Trump picked it up.

[Forty Two]

It's a feminist trope, that women are subjected to body shaming and objectification when men aren't. The reality is, it happens just as much to men, it's just interpreted generally as worse when done to women.

No, it fucking isn't. One person who got pissed off about that demonstrated it by example on TV. For one fucking year.

Yes, it fucking is. It's a common feminist concept that women are body shamed and objectified and that men aren't. There is even the "male tears" component of feminism which says that men can't be hurt by these things in the same way women can because men are the sex in power.

Angered by the sexism he saw being heaped upon his female colleagues – and attempts to downplay it – Karl Stefanovic decided to conduct an experiment.

He wore the same blue suit on air, two days in a row. Then three. A month ticked by without a ripple.

Now, a full year has passed – and he is still wearing the same cheap Burberry knock-off, every morning, on Channel Nine's Today program.

Not a single audience member has asked about it, he says. Fashion commentators and other media also seem oblivious.

Yet co-host Lisa Wilkinson still receives regular and unsolicited fashion appraisals, as she revealed in her well-received Andrew Olle lecture last year. ("Who the heck is Lisa's stylist?" one emailer demanded to know. "Today's outfit is particularly jarring and awful. Get some style.") These same viewers, however, have failed to observe – or simply don't care – that the man beside her happily slips on the same outfit, day after day.

"No one has noticed; no one gives a shit," Stefanovic tells Fairfax Media. "But women, they wear the wrong colour and they get pulled up. They say the wrong thing and there's thousands of tweets written about them."

...

"I'm judged on my interviews, my appalling sense of humour – on how I do my job, basically. Whereas women are quite often judged on what they're wearing or how their hair is ... that's [what I wanted to test]."

Link

That's because men, even when they where different suits every day, still wear basically the same suit. If one's wardrobe differs markedly from day to day, then people will comment more. If your hair is always some iteration of "parted to the side, and short" then nobody is going to care if it's a centimeter longer one day than the next. But if you go from a bob, to a pixiecut, and then grow it out long and add extensions, people are bound to notice a bit.

And, five will get you ten, the comments on the woman's outfits and such were coming from other women. Women care about that stuff. Men not only generally don't care, but by now they sure as shit know not to say anything about it. LOL.

Generally, when women decide they're going to stop being slaves to fashion, they find out that nobody gives as much of a fuck as they fear -- https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/03/3 ... -briggman/ and http://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/fe ... k-everday/

But, the point I made was that obviously nobody is shy about criticizing what men wear too, when it's noticeable -- Trump's hair - his skin tone - his weight - all get mentioned -- why? They're unique and noticeable - they stand out.

[Forty Two]

It's a feminist trope, that women are subjected to body shaming and objectification when men aren't. The reality is, it happens just as much to men, it's just interpreted generally as worse when done to women.

No, it fucking isn't. One person who got pissed off about that demonstrated it by example on TV. For one fucking year....

You're missing the point Hermy. I think we can all agree that the real trouble with feminism is that it disproportionately focuses on the experience of women. That this TV guy didn't get picked up on his fashion incompetence just reinforces the silent discrimination men have to deal with every day. Surely, in this modern, progressive age of so-called equality, isn't it time that men were subjected to exactly the same kind of shit as women are subjected to? I mean, what's a boy got to do to get noticed these days?!!

The idea that men are not "subjected to" social pressures on a daily basis is ridiculous. What it boils down to is that men are expected not to complain about it, and that society sympathizes with the plight of women. It's the same as with workplace safety -- if women were dying and getting sick in the workplace at the rate men do, there would be national outrage about it. Since it's men, it's "yawn, well, maybe the menz shouldn't do those dirty jobs then, eh?" [take a sip of male tears].

[Forty Two]

Bullshit, I've always been judged for my choice of clothes. This guy proved nothing.

We're surrounded by twats 24/7, all of us.

"Clothes make the man."

Huffpo says women are judging men by their shoes. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/ ... 89418.html andhttps://www.americaninno.com/dc/7-ways-women-ju ... realizing/ Let me clutch my pearls and have a cry. I can't believe I can't wear flipflops to dinner without being unfairly judged on my fashion choices!

[laklak]

I just attended a formal wedding, the majority of men wore almost exactly the same outfit. Some differences in bow ties, but otherwise the same thing. Not a one of us said "OMG he's wearing MY outfit!"

[Forty Two]

Bullshit, I've always been judged for my choice of clothes. This guy proved nothing.

We're surrounded by twats 24/7, all of us.

Well I never have, in the sense of judgements from other people that have any real effect on me. Not that its important, but mention by either sex of clothes people were wearing when I was working was virtually always about female members of staff...

I've heard women comment on women's clothes, but I've never heard men commenting on what women were wearing, except to say that "she's hot" or some iteration of that (and only then, when no women were around). Women, on the other hand, are brutal when it comes to fashion, especially to women, but to men who commit faux pas too.

[Forty Two]

I go for the classic look, board shorts, a Hendrix T-shirt, and flip flops. Hard to criticize that.

My wife laughs at me, because she says I can just go to my closet and grab the first shirt and first pants, and they always "match" and then all that remains are shoes and belt, which is the one fashion rule I have committed to memory since I was told about it (by a woman) decades ago -- shoes should match the belt. This is important, apparently. All my work clothes are the same -- either white button down, or blue button down - suits are some iteration of grey or dark blue (some pinstripe, some not) - that's it. No choices need be made. Grab a suit - any shirt will match, and all the ties will match no matter what. I have a brown belt for brown shoes, and a black belt for black shoes.

If not at work, then wear jeans, any shoes will match -- shirt depends on one of three levels of casual -- t-shirt (low), three button polo (mid), button down or Tommy Bahama (high). Everything matches each other.

Socks can be a source of consternation. The solution is never to get socks with designs on them. Just buy black, brown and white, always the same brand. Always the same kind. That way, when putting them away, all you have to do is lock for color matches - don't need to find the exact match for a pair. When you put them on, just pick the necessary shade.

The Zuckerberg "where the same t-shirt and pants every day" theme is genius. Takes my strategy to the next level. I admire it. I'd do it, except that my wife would not permit it - not so much as a direct order, but she's the head of our purchasing department (as women generally are) and she buys my clothes for me. [before the folks start after me on sexism or something, she's a stay at home mother, and that's part of her job because she's at the mall anyway buying stuff for herself and the kids]

[Sean Hayden]

Hell, even if we all wore uniforms we'd find reasons to fault how so and so wore their's.

What women deal with more often in my experience is a persistent stream of attention of the kind they'd rather not have. Every attractive woman deals with it constantly. If you watch any YouTube --not related to these issues specifically-- any YouTube at all, I don't care if it's gardening, if it's a woman, there are always some wacky comments ranging from jackasses "in love", to very probable outright stalkers. I can't stand the fuckers, even when I try to imagine them as young idiots... how many can there be!

[Forty Two]

Everybody who has a youtube channel with any reasonable degree of viewership is going to get the unwanted attention. Talk to Dawkins and Harris about their audience members. They get skewered for every little thing. Any guy on the internet posting comment videos or the like gets such commentary too. Sargon of Akkad gets criticism for his weight, his looks or lack thereof, his beard, etc. Thunderf00t gets it for his obvious low level of physical attractiveness.

None of this is specific to women, except that women tend to focus more on their own looks and sex appeal. Women will make videos showing cleavage and wearing tight clothes. You can bet, if a guy did his videos shirtless or with the front wide open, and tight ball-and-dick-hugging pants, there'd be plenty of commentary about it. At bottom, men don't get as many comments about their clothes because men just don't wear stuff that stands out, or "expresses their sexuality" as much as women do. However, when they do, you can bet that they get worse commentary than what women get, IMO.