Global Climate Change Science News

[Rum]

You are afraid really. I think that is your problem. And you are right to be.

[pErvinalia]

So is the Earth warming or not?

[mistermack]

So is the Earth warming or not?

At the moment, it's impossible to tell. Ten years ago, I didn't trust the models, but I trusted the data as honest and genuine. But over the years, I've seen data and graphs that I clearly remember, changing with time. Someone has been at them. (making "improvements" no doubt).

So now, I don't think even the data that we are seeing is reliable any more. Where it's possible to nudge the figures up, that's what happens.
If weather balloons don't show enough warming, concentrate on the satellites. If the satellites don't show what we want, use the ground data. If the ocean data is looking warm this year, push that.

One thing they can't fake, is the satellite pictures of the Arctic, and I check them regularly and post them on here. In spite of the fact that the arctic was supposed to be clear of ice by now, it's anything but.
And it doesn't seem to be changing much.
So, yes, we've had some warming. It's tiny. It paused for nearly 20 years when it shouldn't have. And nothing much is happening now.
This is the arctic which is at it's annual minimum right now :

[Animavore]

From the same site you got your picture.

https://nsidc.org/news/newsroom/arctic- ... aight-year

[Animavore]

At the moment, it's impossible to tell. Ten years ago, I didn't trust the models, but I trusted the data as honest and genuine. But over the years, I've seen data and graphs that I clearly remember, changing with time. Someone has been at them. (making "improvements" no doubt).

Evidence for this. Not memory.

So now, I don't think even the data that we are seeing is reliable any more. Where it's possible to nudge the figures up, that's what happens.
If weather balloons don't show enough warming, concentrate on the satellites. If the satellites don't show what we want, use the ground data. If the ocean data is looking warm this year, push that.

Bullshit, selecting one, preferred set of data is what denialists do. Scientists must use ALL the data.

Evidence of denialists cherry picking -

https://weather.com/news/news/breitbart ... ate-change

https://www.climaterealityproject.org/b ... ate-change

https://climatefeedback.org/article-tag/cherry-picking/

Stop lying to us and, most importantly, to yourself.

[mistermack]

This from the same site that produce the map I posted :
Sea ice is clearly NOT at a record low.



Even if it was, the forecast was for an arctic clear of sea ice many years ago. The Northwest passage was supposed to be open and ready for business. At the moment, the ice area is about half the size of the United States. (including Alaska)

Even now, at the ice minimum, there is loads of the stuff. And of course, the ANTarctic is fully stocked with ice, and fluctuates between record levels, and just loads and loads.

It's highly likely, (but generally ignored) that a lot of the melting in the north is the result of the reduced albedo of the ice, because of soot particles emitted in the industrial countries of the north.
The small amount of warming that has occurred will surely cause some melting, but the soot effect is bound to be contributing too.

[Animavore]

Stop lying. No one predicted the Artic sea ice would be gone now in 2017.

The article I posted said March was a record low maximum for 2017. Your graph starts in June and from a clearly lower position.

This year is clearly drastically lower than the median.

Stop twisting and lying.

[Animavore]

Oh look! A Russian ship recently crossed the Artic passage.

https://www.livescience.com/60265-russi ... rctic.html

[Animavore]

Meanwhile; grown folks are talking. Climate change is happening. It's here.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... a-droughts

[mistermack]

Stop lying. No one predicted the Artic sea ice would be gone now in 2017.

They've been saying it since before I was born. And that's a long time ago.
https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/ice ... forecasts/
The only thing that's changed, is that they keep putting the date back, as time goes on and it doesn't happen.
I'm not saying it won't happen. It's just that they kept saying it was going to happen imminently, and it never did. Lots of people said it would happen before the millenium. That was in the eighties and nineties.

Oh look! A Russian ship recently crossed the Artic passage.

https://www.livescience.com/60265-russi ... rctic.html

Yes. A brand new design of combined ice breaker and tanker. Why do they need the ice breaker capability, I wonder?
And it's not the northwest passage. It's the Russian passage, which was previously possible to sail through, if a dedicated ice breaker led the way and broke the ice.

[Brian Peacock]

And there's not as much ice as there used to be eh?

[pErvinalia]

It's the cosmic rays wot done that.

[Animavore]

I found this really handy and succinct piece which debunks all arguments in five sentences (and also links to the argument in full). I'm just going to post this every MM talks guff because I really do believe the time for giving time to insolent little brats who just want to scoff is over. Those of us grown ups who understand the problem need to think what we need tyo do about this crisis. We can't be stuck arguing with malignant forces. We should be shutting them down and voting them out of every and any position of power as utterly worthless and unsuitable to lead us into the future. Because obviously they can't be cut out to solve a problem they have their head in the sand about. Expending energy on them will get us no where.

https://thelogicofscience.com/2016/10/1 ... less-each/

[Animavore]

Stop lying. No one predicted the Artic sea ice would be gone now in 2017.

They've been saying it since before I was born. And that's a long time ago.
https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/ice ... forecasts/
The only thing that's changed, is that they keep putting the date back, as time goes on and it doesn't happen.
I'm not saying it won't happen. It's just that they kept saying it was going to happen imminently, and it never did. Lots of people said it would happen before the millenium. That was in the eighties and nineties.

Oh look! A Russian ship recently crossed the Artic passage.

https://www.livescience.com/60265-russi ... rctic.html

Yes. A brand new design of combined ice breaker and tanker. Why do they need the ice breaker capability, I wonder?
And it's not the northwest passage. It's the Russian passage, which was previously possible to sail through, if a dedicated ice breaker led the way and broke the ice.

Ah yes. John Kerry and Al Gore. Those eminent scientists.

Here. Do your own research.

https://thelogicofscience.com/2016/10/1 ... less-each/

[Animavore]

I shouldn't be shocked by the blatant dishonesty, but neither of the newspaper articles talking about the Artic ice warming from 1958-1960 are talking about anthropogenic climate change. The first snippet is too vague, but the second article seems to be about some idea that we are still coming out of an ice age.

https://books.google.ie/books?id=yJjFw4 ... &q&f=false

I shouldn't be surprised. This is what denialists do. They lie, and twist, manipulate, quote mine and cherry pick. Notice the scientist in question (an ornothologist) totally believes the warming is a result of natural cycles, not CO2. In other words, denialists are using someone who believes like they do (probably not for the same, dishonest reason, back then) to argue against the opposition.

Done with dangerous liars for the fossil industry. Push on without them.