Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

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Whose Hard Brexit do you want to get shafted by?

Poll ended at Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:01 pm

Labour's Hard Brexit!
0
No votes
Tory Hard Brexit
1
13%
Cheese or bacon or something
7
88%
 
Total votes: 8

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Scot Dutchy
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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Scot Dutchy » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:50 am

mistermack wrote:I'm not sure that Corbyn will get votes out of this.
It's leaving but not leaving. All of the worst bits, without the bits that people actually voted for.

I would have a lot more respect for them, if they said they would stand for election on a no-brexit agenda.
They could easily say that they have looked at Brexit, and have decided it's better not to do it.

Personally, I'm still for a real Brexit, when Britain is still sovereign, and makes it's own decisions, without deals, which it can change, reverse, increase, decrease, as it likes without having to do a deal abroad.
Consultations by all means, deals no.

But I would rather scrap Brexit than have a soft Brexit.
What is it with people. They seem to be in a dream world when the decision has been taken and it cannot be repealed. It is not a question of hard or soft anymore. Brexit is going to happen. It cannot be repealed. Art 50 has no repeal mechanism. What people keep on waffling about scrapping it. It cant scrapped. It is an international agreement. Art 50 was accepted along with rest of the Lisbon Treaty when the UK signed it under the Vienna protocol. The UK cannot unilaterally withdraw the letter of intent.
In art 50 there is the possibility of extending the leaving date but that needs a majority vote as defined in art 218(3) Lisbon Treaty of the EU Council which would be marginally possible but the UK has made so many enemies it is not a taken. The idea that there can be mutual agreement with all the 28 countries to halt the Brexit process is just another fanciful one. Even if it was possible it would be illegal as it would require a treaty change and that process would take years and would once again need approval by all 50 governments and unanimous agreement in the Commission, Parliament and Council. So that is basically a non starter.

So the UK is technically out. It is in a position of limbo. Not involved in the EU decision making process but still paying and unable to go into negotiations with other non-EU countries. This position will continue until at the latest 29-3-19.

Once out it is far from plain sailing. Applying to join the EEA could be met with opposition from Norway and Iceland. The WTO is also fraught with problems as countries with a grudge against the UK could use the leverage to extort deals out of the UK. Argentina is a good example.

The UK will be a third (world) country. Losing 80% of its financial services and dont mention the number of companies moving onto the mainland.
The short term future looks bleak. The mid and long term are very dubious.

Once again the Brexiteers as they have always have done, never thought it through when sending the art 50 letter.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by rainbow » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:47 am

Brian Peacock wrote:
rainbow wrote:Will the Brits retain EEA status after Brexit?
I don't think it is foregone.
it isn't. But I'm sure Boris will sort himself out so he can continue to enjoy his home in France.
As I said above, those with sufficient money will be fine.

The deluded cannon-fodder Brexit voters will be the losers.
I call bullshit - Alfred E Einstein
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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Rum » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:13 am

rainbow wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:
rainbow wrote:Will the Brits retain EEA status after Brexit?
I don't think it is foregone.
it isn't. But I'm sure Boris will sort himself out so he can continue to enjoy his home in France.
As I said above, those with sufficient money will be fine.

The deluded cannon-fodder Brexit voters will be the losers.
Yep. I have friends who 'just get by' with odd jobs and the like. The female half of the couple sells cosmetics on line via video etc. They have three kids under 6. They are also very happy I might add.

However they inexplicably voted LEAVE and while not amazingly bright they aren't stupid. I will add that they live in a part of the UK which saw a great many incomers from Europe.

Anyway they voted as they did despite my dire warnings. Just the other day the female half of the couple dropped in and in the course of the conversation commented on how much food prices seem to have gone up lately.

DOH!

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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by mistermack » Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:55 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:What does it matter? I'm guessing you probably won't be voting for any party who wants to retain any ties with the EU - which will leave you with some fringe elements or an independent.
You can have ties without being subject to their authority. That's the point.

I've nearly always voted Labour, and it's always a disappointment if I can't. But this present Labour, no chance.

I certainly can't vote for a soft Brexit party. I would be closer to voting Liberal than Labour on that.
If the Tories started backtracking on Brexit, then I might vote UKIP for lack of choice.

If a party stood on a "no Brexit" policy, I might support them. But not the Liberals, because they would gladly compromise with a soft Brexit.
For me it has to be hard Brexit or no Brexit. Anything in the middle is shite.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Scot Dutchy » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:15 pm

Yeah. It called 'having your cake and eating it'. Go ahead you are still out by 29-3-19. Dont you understand that nothing can be done and nobody wants to anything to change it. We want rid of you.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by mistermack » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:51 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:Yeah. It called 'having your cake and eating it'. Go ahead you are still out by 29-3-19. Dont you understand that nothing can be done and nobody wants to anything to change it. We want rid of you.
Yeh, the Dutch always were happy to live under German domination.
I'm sorry we saved you from the Nazis, it's taken you seventy years to get back to where you like it, kneeling with your ass in the air, keen to please your German master.
It's something about the Dutch character. You seem to like it that way.

You either like being dominated or you don't. The British don't.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:07 am

mistermack wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:Yeah. It called 'having your cake and eating it'. Go ahead you are still out by 29-3-19. Dont you understand that nothing can be done and nobody wants to anything to change it. We want rid of you.
Yeh, the Dutch always were happy to live under German domination.
I'm sorry we saved you from the Nazis, it's taken you seventy years to get back to where you like it, kneeling with your ass in the air, keen to please your German master.
It's something about the Dutch character. You seem to like it that way.

You either like being dominated or you don't. The British don't.
Another load of bollocks. You should really stop and try to think.

We dont have a German master. You are obviously ignorant of the workings of the EU. I am fed up of trying to educate people like you.
You did not save us and you did not save yourselves. It was the Americans, Soviets and Commonwealth/Empire countries that saved Europe. If we depended on you we would still be under the Nazi jackboot. We have never been under German domination. You dont understand democracy because the UK has never been democratic. It is run by the elite who have their own chamber in parliament and own 99% of the country. Your elections to the House of "Commons" are a farce. The SNP gets double the number of seats than the LibDems with half the number of votes. Very democratic and never mind the gerry mandering of the constituencies.

Just try and learn some real facts and not the Brexiteer "facts" from the Wail and Scum.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by mistermack » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:23 am

Scot Dutchy wrote: We have never been under German domination.
That's it.
Write your own history. If it's more comfortable. :funny:

Of course, you can only be really comfortable when you're devouring a big German sausage.

With the wrong end. :hehe:
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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Hermit » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:31 am

mistermack wrote:I'm sorry we saved you from the Nazis...
Well, Great Britain took part in the war against fascist Germany. Not much choice there, considering the British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain declared war on it. The Soviet Union did the bulk of the saving, and the USA provided the bulk of finance and material resources for it.

Write your own history, if it's more comfortable.

Of course, you can only be really comfortable when you keep imagining that Great Britain still was a powerful nation as late as the mid 20th century.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:40 am

Plenty of Brexiteers write their own history. The facts like all facts are meaningless to them.

This the delusion they live under that the UK is still a world power. It is a vassal to America which gave it a couple of nuclear subs so it can play the role of a world nuclear power. It has no independent control over them of course but does that worry them? No of course not and once the chlorinated chickens, hormone filled beef and the GM grain comes flooding in killing of the last of UK agriculture they will keen to join as the 51st state.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Rum » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:47 am

Thread needs more insult trading.

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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by mistermack » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:50 am

Just remember, if you have trouble accommodating that German sausage, try a little help from Greece to move things along. :D
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:44 pm

mistermack wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:Yeah. It called 'having your cake and eating it'. Go ahead you are still out by 29-3-19. Dont you understand that nothing can be done and nobody wants to anything to change it. We want rid of you.
Yeh, the Dutch always were happy to live under German domination.
I'm sorry we saved you from the Nazis, it's taken you seventy years to get back to where you like it, kneeling with your ass in the air, keen to please your German master.
It's something about the Dutch character. You seem to like it that way.

You either like being dominated or you don't. The British don't.
Brexit is the Dunkirk of our times, not the D-day landings. :tea:
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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:02 pm

That is very true Brian. Very true.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by mistermack » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:31 pm

Yes, and this time Germany wins.
It took some time, but they did it.

Now, on to Moscow !!
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

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