Straya!

[Hermit]

I wasn't asked to provide evidence.

And you didn't.

Which is, and always has been my point.

Thanks for playing. Sleep well. With any amount of luck the debilitating effect of you depression or that of the meds you take to fight it, or better still both, will have abated when you wake up.

[Brian Peacock]

Seems to me that a constitution which decrees that elected representatives must be a national (fiar point) and only ever and always a national, is a bit like saying that MPs can only be tap dancers with grade 9 sousaphone.

I think it's a reasonable requirement. Politicians need to be above reproach.

And how does playing the sousaphone help with that, or having duel citizenship for that matter?

Having dual citizenship increases the chance that a foreign power holds sway over you.

Having dual citizenship increases the chance that a foreign power holds sway over you.

Foreign powers can hold sway over anyone they can corrupt and/or influence, or anyone how is willing to be corrupted or influenced, regardless of nationality. I mean, just look at Trump and Russia (back of the net!). What you're implying is that someone has a questionable approach to probity on the basis of their antecedence, which sounds a bit, you know, 'Never trust a darkie' doesn't it?

No, what I said is that it increases the chances. It doesn't mean every furriner is corrupted or similarly no Strayan can be corrupted.

No, what I said is that it increases the chances. It doesn't mean every furriner is corrupted or similarly no Strayan can be corrupted.

I would be interested to know exactly how duel citizenship increases the chances of a politician being swayable or below reproach (he shoots, he scores!).

They may hold embarrassing information about you, they may be in a position to allow or deny a family member citizenship/asylum. There's heaps of possibilities.

They may hold embarrassing information about you, they may be in a position to allow or deny a family member citizenship/asylum. There's heaps of possibilities.

Isn't that a possibility with any politician though, as Hermy pointed out with Turnbull and Indian coal? What is it about dual citizenship which 'increases the chances' of a politician being less than squeaky clean? Many Ozzies have duel UK citizenship, does that 'increase the chances' for reprehensible action also?

My point is a plain and straightforward one I think. Sure, have some conditions on elected office - confirmed residence for a certain period, up-to-date tax records, or whatever - but an outright bar on those with a whiff of the outlander about them seems a little over the top imo.

They may hold embarrassing information about you, they may be in a position to allow or deny a family member citizenship/asylum. There's heaps of possibilities.

Isn't that a possibility with any politician though, as Hermy pointed out with Turnbull and Indian coal?

Didn't I just explicitly address this fucking point in my second to last post to you?!?...

Rinse and repeat.

Look, I'm not badgering you here. I get that there has to be safeguards and check-and-balances when it comes to an elected official's interests and allegiances, but all I see here is you saying that dual citizenship kinda makes someone more susceptible to being compromised and therefore less trustworthy. It implies that mono-nationality(!), the overwhelming norm I'll grant, is a state which bestows a virtue unobtainable by the dualist. That's probably not what you think -- and I'm pretty sure you not of the opinion "Ozzy good. Furrinah bad!" -- but it's certainly what you implied imo.

[mistermack]

I think it has the potential for causing problems down the track, particularly if it were hidden. If there was a public register, which also contained some form of statement from the politician, there should be no problem.

"G'day, Australia. My name is Joe Blogs, and I'm the proud representative of the good folk in Buggerup, WA. I was born in Oz, but my Dad was a kiwi. I am an Aussie citizen, and declare that my potential kiwi citizenship to be null and void"

If everything that had the potential for causing problems disqualified you, there wouldn't be a parliament.
There would certainly be no women members.

Or men.

Or gays.

Or Australians.

Fuck it, you've got the Queen. She can appoint a Viceroy. From the British aristocracy.
That should prevent any future problems.

Kim Jong Un is North Korean. Born and bred.
No problems there.

[pErvinalia]

I wasn't asked to provide evidence.

And you didn't.

What kind of argument is that? Of course I didn't provide evidence, as I wasn't asked to provide evidence!

Which is, and always has been my point.

I dont give fuck what your point was. I was discussing something with Brian, not you. And not to mention, that demonstrably wasn't your point as you yourself quoted yourself showing. Your initial point was that I "didn't address it". Which I demonstrably did, and which you yourself quoted me doing.

Thanks for playing. Sleep well. With any amount of luck the debilitating effect of you depression or that of the meds you take to fight it, or better still both, will have abated when you wake up.

Someone definitely needs meds, and it's not currently me.

The first rule of holes: stop digging when you find yourself in one.

[pErvinalia]

Seems to me that a constitution which decrees that elected representatives must be a national (fiar point) and only ever and always a national, is a bit like saying that MPs can only be tap dancers with grade 9 sousaphone.

I think it's a reasonable requirement. Politicians need to be above reproach.

And how does playing the sousaphone help with that, or having duel citizenship for that matter?

Having dual citizenship increases the chance that a foreign power holds sway over you.

Having dual citizenship increases the chance that a foreign power holds sway over you.

Foreign powers can hold sway over anyone they can corrupt and/or influence, or anyone how is willing to be corrupted or influenced, regardless of nationality. I mean, just look at Trump and Russia (back of the net!). What you're implying is that someone has a questionable approach to probity on the basis of their antecedence, which sounds a bit, you know, 'Never trust a darkie' doesn't it?

No, what I said is that it increases the chances. It doesn't mean every furriner is corrupted or similarly no Strayan can be corrupted.

No, what I said is that it increases the chances. It doesn't mean every furriner is corrupted or similarly no Strayan can be corrupted.

I would be interested to know exactly how duel citizenship increases the chances of a politician being swayable or below reproach (he shoots, he scores!).

They may hold embarrassing information about you, they may be in a position to allow or deny a family member citizenship/asylum. There's heaps of possibilities.

They may hold embarrassing information about you, they may be in a position to allow or deny a family member citizenship/asylum. There's heaps of possibilities.

Isn't that a possibility with any politician though, as Hermy pointed out with Turnbull and Indian coal? What is it about dual citizenship which 'increases the chances' of a politician being less than squeaky clean? Many Ozzies have duel UK citizenship, does that 'increase the chances' for reprehensible action also?

My point is a plain and straightforward one I think. Sure, have some conditions on elected office - confirmed residence for a certain period, up-to-date tax records, or whatever - but an outright bar on those with a whiff of the outlander about them seems a little over the top imo.

They may hold embarrassing information about you, they may be in a position to allow or deny a family member citizenship/asylum. There's heaps of possibilities.

Isn't that a possibility with any politician though, as Hermy pointed out with Turnbull and Indian coal?

Didn't I just explicitly address this fucking point in my second to last post to you?!?...

Rinse and repeat.

Look, I'm not badgering you here. I get that there has to be safeguards and check-and-balances when it comes to an elected official's interests and allegiances, but all I see here is you saying that dual citizenship kinda makes someone more susceptible to being compromised and therefore less trustworthy. It implies that mono-nationality(!), the overwhelming norm I'll grant, is a state which bestows a virtue unobtainable by the dualist.

It doesn't imply anything of the sort. Words have meaning man. You can't just fudge them around to suit your argument. And I explicitly addressed your retarded interpretation. You just quoted me addressing it. So why the fuck are you still trying peddle this shit?

That's probably not what you think -- and I'm pretty sure you not of the opinion "Ozzy good. Furrinah bad!" -- but it's certainly what you implied imo.

Correction, it's what you mistakenly interpreted because you've added meaning into words that is literally not there.

[Svartalf]

Having dual citizenship increases the chance that a foreign power holds sway over you.

pure and unadultered hogwash, Canada has no power over me...and I bet mos dual nationals are unbothered by their extra passports.

[pErvinalia]

Surely you don't need me to explain why argument from personal anecdote is a fallacy.

Not to mention it's a terrible argument anyway. Why would Canada want to influence an insignificant unemployed random citizen? Don't pretend you can't see the difference between yourself and the elite law makers in government.

[Brian Peacock]

I think what you're saying is, "Politicians are untrustworthy, but those with dual citizenship are more untrustworthy than most."

[pErvinalia]

Sigh. That's not what I'm fucking saying. Well, the first part is correct, at least...

[Sean Hayden]

You don't need evidence perv, not every decision can be made with the benefit of evidence. It may not even be wise to act according to the evidence in certain situations.

[Sean Hayden]

-damned if you do, and damned if you don't

[mistermack]

The evidence from history is completely decisive.

Adolf Hitler was an Austrian. Not only that, he was Austro-Hungarian. Even his country had dual citizenship.

People with dual citizenship are murdering fascist dictators. Don't let them into the Oz parliament.

Stalin on the other hand was definitely Russian. No wait, wasn't he Georgian?? Well, Kruschev then. Or was he Ukranian?

I don't know. At least our Royal Family are English. Not German. Any more. There's .. . . maybe a bit of Greek in there somewhere...

[pErvinalia]

..

[Sean Hayden]

People with dual citizenship are murdering fascist dictators.

Plus they could have conflicting views on personal hygiene, then what, huh?

[NineBerry]

Let's see.

Assume there is an Australian Law Maker with with Russian heritage whose still has relatives and property in Russia.

Now Russia wants to put pressure on this Law Maker.

Case 1: He does not have Russian citizenship. Thus Russia can prevent him from entering the country or have bad stuff done to his property.
Case 2: He does have Russian citizenship: He has the right to enter Russia at any time and he can go before Russian courts with his fill rights as a Russian citizen to defend himself against actions of the Russian government.

So, it would seem that having a foreign citizenship actually decreases the influence that foreign government has over you.