Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

[mistermack]

I don't think you answered Hermit's actual question...

Hermit's question was an attempt to divert and deceive. That was my point.

He's no more truthful than that dumb fucker he's supporting.

The question was, "can Britain control it's borders?"
The lying fucker tried to give the IMPRESSION that it could, when he obviously was well aware that it can't.
And Hermit, by trying the old "were his words an actual lie?" tactic, was as deceptive and pathetic as he was.

Who do you think you are kidding, Hermit? Can't you debate with people on an honest basis? If your point is any good, you don't need to dodge the truth.

[pErvinalia]

Strangely, he didn't post the one where another caller showed him to be a liar and idiot.

Where can I catch up on that? Searching Google with "James O'Brien" and "liar" was unsuccessful, though this petition was good for a laugh. The ambitious aim is to reach 100 signatures. Still nine short of that. Maybe you'll help out.

It would be deleted. That's the point.

Oh, yet another conspiracy... This shit runs deep! Damn you secret Joos!!1

[pErvinalia]

I don't think you answered Hermit's actual question...

Hermit's question was an attempt to divert and deceive. That was my point.

He's no more truthful than that dumb fucker he's supporting.

The question was, "can Britain control it's borders?"
The lying fucker tried to give the IMPRESSION that it could, when he obviously was well aware that it can't.

Isn't the reason for wanting to control your borders about immigration not people having a holiday?

[mistermack]

Just to put that Belgium thing into context, Some 2,712 citizens of other EU countries have been asked to leave Belgium for being an unreasonable burden on the welfare system.
Mostly Romanians and Bulgarians. That's not controlling your own borders. It's restricting access to freebies. Nothing wrong with it, but it's not even remotely connected to controlling your own borders.
It's the EU who tells Belgium what they can and can't do with their "own" borders.

http://www.euronews.com/2014/01/30/belg ... he-country

[Brian Peacock]

From the link:

ccording to the 2004 European directive on the free movement of workers: “Persons exercising their right of residence should not, however, become an unreasonable burden on the social assistance system of the host member State during an initial period of residence.” This gives EU member countries the right to expel EU citizens.

Those asked to leave include people who have lost their jobs and students no longer studying.

“It is not particulary severe. It’s just, it’s reasonable and it’s in keeping with European legislation. Even if there are currently a large number of people whose stays have been refused, the law entitles us to make these decisions. So I think we have correctly and objectively applied European and national legislation,” said Dominique Ernould from the Belgian Office for Foreigners.

Most of the notices have been sent to Romanians and Bulgarians. Third and fourth are people from Spain and Italy respectively.

“You have the right to go to another EU country and stay there for up to three months without any obligations and also without any rights to claim benefits during these three months. Up to six months, you can stay only if you really can prove that you are looking for a job actively in this other EU state. And afterwards you cannot stay unless you have the financial means to support yourself and you have comprehensive sickness insurance,” spokesperson for the European Commission Mina Andreeva told euronews.

As a member of the EU the UK government could have chosen to institute and enact similar regulations. That the UK government could do this, or something similar, and yet didn't is at the heart of the question Hermit asked Mr M - a question that has to be addressed in light of certain kinds of claim, for example: that EU citizens in Britain were imposing an undue burden on the welfare, school, and health systems, and that the EU was actively stopping the UK government from doing anything about it.

Now, if the question is not about whether or not the UK had the power to control immigration levels by deporting EU citizens living in the UK without a visible means of support--and even accepting that this represents a sneaky shifting of the goalposts--but instead is about the apparent porous nature of UK borders open to EU citizens, then that must be addressed in the context of the fact that immigration produces a net gain for the economy. I'd suggest that this is the real reason why the UK government did very little to restrict the stay of EU citizens - on the whole is was better for the economy, and they fudged their rhetoric on the matter to placate and entice the swivel-eyed loons who they feared would migrate their voting preference to rampant nationalists, knowing liars, and disingenuous bigots.

[Hermit]

And Hermit, by trying the old "were his words an actual lie?" tactic, was as deceptive and pathetic as he was.

I agree in so far as it is possible to lie without literally doing so in so many words. You can even lie using actual, undoctored photos, as Farage so beautifully demonstrated above. I do disagree that O'Brien lied, though. He pointed out that the European Community provides for its member countries to control who lives in them, and what people from other EU countries have to do to qualify. If a country chooses to not implement policies to do so, or if they implement them incompetently, that hardly means those provisions do not exist.

Now, let me ask again: I was expecting a link to some article somewhere. Anywhere. Maybe a transcript of what transpired. I mean if there's a legitimate allegation of O'Brien being a liar there has to be a record of it somewhere. Found anything yet to support your spurious allegation, or shall I just put it down as a lie now?

[rainbow]

Just to put that Belgium thing into context, Some 2,712 citizens of other EU countries have been asked to leave Belgium for being an unreasonable burden on the welfare system.
Mostly Romanians and Bulgarians. That's not controlling your own borders. It's restricting access to freebies. Nothing wrong with it, but it's not even remotely connected to controlling your own borders.
It's the EU who tells Belgium what they can and can't do with their "own" borders.

Complete rubbish, and you know it.

Every person entering the UK must go through passport control, which is operated by British Officials:

Your passport or identity card will be checked when you arrive at a UK port or airport to make sure you’re allowed to come into the country. It must be valid for the whole of your stay.

You may also need a visa to come into or travel through the UK, depending on your nationality.

https://www.gov.uk/uk-border-control/overview

Please stop telling porky-pies on this matter.

[rainbow]

Clearly they are not immigrants, but naturalised Brits.

Why else would they be patiently standing in line?

[Scot Dutchy]

Just to put that Belgium thing into context, Some 2,712 citizens of other EU countries have been asked to leave Belgium for being an unreasonable burden on the welfare system.
Mostly Romanians and Bulgarians. That's not controlling your own borders. It's restricting access to freebies. Nothing wrong with it, but it's not even remotely connected to controlling your own borders.
It's the EU who tells Belgium what they can and can't do with their "own" borders.

http://www.euronews.com/2014/01/30/belg ... he-country

Why did you not use the quote function?

Do you understand the EU regulations and the ones that the UK failed to apply because it was too lazy and does not have the legal structures in place to handle them. The trouble with the UK is once you are in your in. There is no control. Just keep your nose clean and nobody will notice. You dont have to register your presence or attain a ID card. There is plenty of legislation the UK could have used which other countries are using. Blaming the EU for immigration problems is pure madness.

[mistermack]

If you control your own borders, you can choose to admit, or refuse entry, to anyone you think fit. It's your choice.

At present, it's not the choice of the UK government. You people can act as dumb as you like, you might even impress yourselves.
Well done. I hope it feels good. It's like little children playing with their toys. They imagine what's happening, and enjoy the make-believe.

In the grown-up world, the EU tells it's members what they can and can't do, on their own borders.
I've got no problem with that, they can leave if they want.

We voted to leave, and controlling our own borders was the biggest reason we voted to leave. So pretending that we already do is hugely pathetic. Even the politicians of all the major parties, campaigning for us to stay in the run-up to the referendum didn't claim that.
But you people would rather go with a minor talk-show gobshite who actually not only confused the guy phoning in, who didn't come across as particularly bright, but you as well. That really doesn't say much for your own critical faculties.

The phone-in guy only had seconds to react. You people have sat back, watched it, thought about it, and still got conned. Dumb or what??

[mistermack]

Please stop telling porky-pies on this matter.

For someone prepared to argue that black is white, you certainly chose to live in the wrong place.

[pErvinalia]

Why is stopping other Europeans coming for a holiday so important?

[mistermack]

Why is stopping other Europeans coming for a holiday so important?

You lose the argument, you try to change the subject. There's a lot of that lately.

It's just the kind of thing the Nazis would do.

[pErvinalia]

Huh? YOU are the one who wants total immigration control. I'm not making an argument. I just want to understand your position (primarily whether it is racist, or a rational reason). What do you want that you don't get now (hence the holiday reference), and why do want/need that?

[pErvinalia]

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