Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

[Scot Dutchy]

Well here is a letter from the MEP's threatening to veto any accord. Did some misguided Regrexiteers think a mutual agreement good be reached to cancel the art 50 process? Cloud cuckoo land is that way.

Improve the Brexit offer to EU citizens, or we’ll veto the deal

The British proposal treats EU citizens in the UK less favourably than even the Vote Leave manifesto did. In the European parliament, we can’t accept this

In the European parliament we accept that the Brexit decision was a democratic choice, but we were never convinced Brexit would be a positive development economically: certainly not for the standing of Europe and the UK in the world and, most importantly, not for citizens. The UK proposal only confirms this belief – falling short of its own ambitions to “put citizens first”. If implemented, it would cast a dark cloud of vagueness and uncertainty over the lives of millions of Europeans.

Comparing it with the proposal of the EU’s Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, the differences are striking. Barnier wants British people and Europeans to keep the same rights and the same level of protection they currently enjoy under European law. All rights acquired before the date of withdrawal will be directly enforceable, with lifelong protection, full reciprocity and equal treatment: a position as simple and clear as it is fair. That is what a majority of the British people want, when they indicate they seek to keep their EU citizenship.

The UK response came three weeks later. It was a damp squib, proposing that Europeans obtain the status of “third-country nationals” in the UK, with fewer rights than British citizens are offered throughout the EU. Europeans will not only lose their right to vote in local elections, but family members will be subject to minimum income requirements, and it is unclear what the status of “post-Brexit” babies would be. This carries a real risk of creating second-class citizenship. The proposal is even in contradiction with the Vote Leave manifesto, which promised to treat EU citizens “no less favourably than they are at present”.

More...

The EU parliament just flexed a muscle.

It is just the first of three demands and already it is not looking good. Trade talks are far away as ever if they ever start.

[mistermack]

Vince Cable is staring the extinction of the Liberal Democrats in the face. His only straw of hope is to push the "we should not leave" message, and try to take the "I told you so" credit, if things go pear shaped.

But it's not going to happen. I can't link to it, but the last thing I heard, the polls now show that a new vote today would result in 75% for leave, compared to just over 50 in the referendum.

People now want to leave, who voted to stay, and they don't mind paying a price, if a price has to be paid.
If there is a temporary price, we'll get it back in the end.

Anything's possible. Vince Cable might be onto a good strategy. But I doubt it. He's pursuing it because he's out of options, not because he thinks it will really happen.

I certainly do hope that it goes through and the Pound collapses.
That makes it easier for me to visit your quaint little soggy island.

Makes it less likely that Brits will visit your disease-ridden hell hole and buy your rancid wine or tribal carved sticks.
Good for us, as there will be less work for the NHS treating the returning tourists for HIV.

[rainbow]

Vince Cable is staring the extinction of the Liberal Democrats in the face. His only straw of hope is to push the "we should not leave" message, and try to take the "I told you so" credit, if things go pear shaped.

But it's not going to happen. I can't link to it, but the last thing I heard, the polls now show that a new vote today would result in 75% for leave, compared to just over 50 in the referendum.

People now want to leave, who voted to stay, and they don't mind paying a price, if a price has to be paid.
If there is a temporary price, we'll get it back in the end.

Anything's possible. Vince Cable might be onto a good strategy. But I doubt it. He's pursuing it because he's out of options, not because he thinks it will really happen.

I certainly do hope that it goes through and the Pound collapses.
That makes it easier for me to visit your quaint little soggy island.

Makes it less likely that Brits will visit your disease-ridden hell hole lovely warm country and buy yourrancidpalm wine or tribal carved sticks.

Good. No more smelly English.

Sorry to hear about all your teeth having fallen out, but never mind the NHS has a plastic set of gnashers ready for you in 18 months.

[Brian Peacock]

So why doesn't the government want to secure the rights of EU citizens living in the UK in return for the security of the rights of UK citizens living in Europe?

Could it be that Tory aspirations to review the balance of the rights of citizens (PDF) because of THE TERROR would effectively lead to a two-tier system post-Brexit, with EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU enjoying rights and protection at a level not afforded to the general UK population?

Or is it just that the Tories have decommitted from the principle of the universality of human rights, instead taking a view that a right is basically a privilege afford to the citizen by the government according to whatever determinant the government of the day decides, and they haven't decided what those so-called 'rights and responsibilities' should or will be yet - and with no clear ideas about rights beyond simply implying that they need to be reduced somehow they have nothing to actually negotiate on or with?

[Scot Dutchy]

It is only negotiation chip they have. Everything else is on the EU side. It could be a touch of bravado maybe. May & co know they are on a hiding to nothing. It could be just pure bloody mindfulness .

[Brian Peacock]

Rebel MPs form cross-party group to oppose hard Brexit

Rebel Tory and Labour MPs have formed a new cross-party group to oppose hard Brexit, as Theresa May prepares to publish her repeal bill this week transposing all EU legislation into British law.

Anna Soubry, the former Tory minister, and Chuka Umunna, the former Labour shadow business secretary, will lead the alliance with other MPs from the Liberal Democrats, the SNP, the Greens and Plaid Cymru in a new attempt to coordinate the parliamentary fight against May’s hard Brexit plan.

The repeal bill is likely to be the first opportunity for the new group, known as the all-party parliamentary group on EU relations, to scrutinise the next phase of Brexit when it is debated in the autumn.

“We won’t accept MPs being treated as spectators in the Brexit process, when we should be on the pitch as active players representing our constituents,” said Umunna, who led the Labour rebellion against leaving the single market last month.

“We will be fighting in parliament for a future relationship with the EU that protects our prosperity and rights at work, and which delivers a better and safer world.”

The repeal bill, due to be published on Thursday, will be a historic piece of legislation reversing the 1972 European Communities Act that took Britain into the bloc, as well as adopting all existing EU standards to ensure a smooth transition....

Read on...

I see the government has dropped the 'Great' from the proposed 'Great Repeal Bill' they touted. How can they Make Britain Great Again if they can't even say it?

[rainbow]

https://www.ft.com/content/d992b7c0-62f ... 2f7ee26895

[Brian Peacock]

Pay wall.

Give us the gist.

[mistermack]

EU nationals coming here get free health cover for life.
UK nationals going there don't get the same.

I would let people stay, if the EU agrees to pay any social benefits that they receive, and pay for any health care.
And the UK can agree to do the same.

If the EU don't want to do that then they can explain why they have to go home.

[mistermack]

Rebel MPs form cross-party group to oppose hard Brexit

Rebel Tory and Labour MPs have formed a new cross-party group to oppose hard Brexit, as Theresa May prepares to publish her repeal bill this week transposing all EU legislation into British law.

Anna Soubry, the former Tory minister, and Chuka Umunna, the former Labour shadow business secretary, will lead the alliance with other MPs from the Liberal Democrats, the SNP, the Greens and Plaid Cymru in a new attempt to coordinate the parliamentary fight against May’s hard Brexit plan.

The repeal bill is likely to be the first opportunity for the new group, known as the all-party parliamentary group on EU relations, to scrutinise the next phase of Brexit when it is debated in the autumn.

Anna Soubry has lost it completely. She's obviously found some other Tory turkeys who are looking forwards to Christmas.
To be honest, I don't think she's quite there since the election. Early indications were that she'd lost her seat, but she squeezed in at the end. She's looked a bit wild-eyed afterwards, I think the pressure has got to her.

I'm amazed that she's found any others to join her crazy gang.

[Brian Peacock]

EU nationals coming here get free health cover for life.
UK nationals going there don't get the same.

That's a myth.

I would let people stay, if the EU agrees to pay any social benefits that they receive, and pay for any health care.
And the UK can agree to do the same.

If the EU don't want to do that then they can explain why they have to go home.

Yeah, fair enough. UK citizens retiring abroad get UK based pension payments and winter fuel allowance etc. EU citizens in the UK could get benefit payments from their home nation at whatever level that might be. Then all the retired and unemployed from the wealthy parts of Europe can relocate to the cheapest parts.

[mistermack]

Then all the retired and unemployed from the wealthy parts of Europe can relocate to the cheapest parts.

I would make the cut-off point the day of the referendum.
After that, everybody knew we were leaving.

[Scot Dutchy]

Here is a great political commentary on the state of Brexit.

Let’s face it: we’re botching Brexit

Reader, it is my duty to say it: oh shit. I have scanned the horizon for a hero riding to Brexit’s rescue and found none. I have spoken to politicians, civil servants, academics, experts both at home and abroad, and have identified an overwhelming consensus: Britain is screwed. Even my Brexiteer friends are behaving like wonks on the edge of a nervous breakdown.

The situation is so grim, that for the first time since June 23, I wonder whether the country might rethink. The polls suggest the mix of fear and uncertainty, plus the show of blatant incompetence put on by the Government, is cutting through. Fifty-four per cent of voters would now vote to Remain in the EU. Sixty per cent would like to keep their European passport. Unsafe though predictions are in these complex times, I bet these numbers will go up rather than down.

[rainbow]

Pay wall.

Give us the gist.

Bastids

Basically whatever happens Britain is headed for a National Humiliation. Three scenarios:
1. The UK takes the offer the EU dictates.
2. They don't take the offer and trade crashes in March 2019.
3. They go cap in hand to the EU and ask to rejoin.

[Brian Peacock]

4. Things go pear shaped but those in denial about it continue to blame the EU for a generation.