Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

[Brian Peacock]

Now now ladies.

[pErvinalia]

Always banging on about border control when your average Brexit-voting coffin-dodger can barely exercise bladder control.

If we had the referendum again, Remain would win, simply by virtue of hundreds of thousands of Leave voters having died off since the last vote.

[Scot Dutchy]

Davis just cant listen can he? Barnier has told him it not possible but he carries on regardless the idiot.

'Frictionless' trade with EU will be impossible if UK leaves single market, says EU Brexit chief

EU chief negotiator says there is no cost-free way to leave bloc and cites 19% tariffs on British beer as possible cost of ‘no deal’

Cant Davis hear or read that?

[Brian Peacock]

Liam Fox and his British-made tie: wrapping Brexit up in knots

Some might say that Liam Fox has landed his ideal job. As international trade secretary, his mission is to jet around the world doing a bit of meet-and-greet over dinner. Indeed, as no trade deals can be signed before Britain leaves the EU, and only the vaguest expressions of future interest can be made so long as the terms of the divorce remain unknown, the Flying Fox is rather obliged to do the bare minimum. And with lengthy transitional arrangements looking increasingly likely, the minister’s time in office could well develop into an extended sabbatical.

To his credit, the Flying Fox made little effort to imply he was finding his responsibilities in any way onerous in his first departmental questions of the new parliament. He spoke lyrically about how he had met 20 trade ministers in order to deepen relations before doing any actual work, and how he was now flat-out busy preparing for the Commonwealth summit. Choosing the wine, working out the seating plan and ordering the flowers...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... _clipboard

Plus: UK business leaders to call for indefinite delay in leaving single market

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... _clipboard

[Scot Dutchy]

A troop of monkeys.

[laklak]

Not my monkeys, thanks be to Jebus.

[Brian Peacock]

Can I get an Amen!?

[mistermack]

Davis just cant listen can he? Barnier has told him it not possible but he carries on regardless the idiot.

'Frictionless' trade with EU will be impossible if UK leaves single market, says EU Brexit chief

EU chief negotiator says there is no cost-free way to leave bloc and cites 19% tariffs on British beer as possible cost of ‘no deal’

Cant Davis hear or read that?

Good news for English wine producers, when we put a tariff on EU wine then.
And great news for Australia and Chile. The UK buys a lot of EU wine. I don't think the EU buys much UK beer.

The same applies across the EU. They talk a big game, but don't want to lose sales in the UK. Merkel knows the score.
If I was negotiating I'd tell the EU bods straight up, that every penny that the UK loses due to restrictions, will be matched.
Restrict London's access to the EU financial market, and you lose Volkswagen's access to our car market.

Just match it all, penny for penny. No more, no less.
They will not like it up em. They never did.

[pErvinalia]

I'm going to again risk getting called out for not knowing what I'm talking about on this issue again.... I haven't read the specifics, but it's standard practice in negotiations to not start from where you are happy to finish up. That's why Obama was so widely ridiculed for his negotiation efforts in improving healthcare in the US. Just because the EU negotiators say that they will enact X% tarrifs, and the Brit negotiators say they want everything for free, doesn't mean either side is being realistic. In negotiation you start from a more extreme position and move towards a more pragmatic position. I don't see why the EU/UK negotiations will be any different. I don't know of the exact dynamics there, so I don't know who wields more power. But assuming that the EU wields more power doesn't mean that they will get everything they want and the UK will get nothing. Money talks. It talks a lot. It will be the final arbiter of what is and isn't acceptable. Not ideology.

[Scot Dutchy]

MM you have not got one bloody clue. Talking like a true Brexiteer. Do you really think VW cares about the UK market? It is only 8% of our trade. The biggest loser of UK trade is this country and are they bothered? Not one bit and as true Dutch merchants they are already moving into other markets. Financial services are moving already to the EU and as are major corporations. The UK has no negotiation chips. It will have accept the EU demands and trade offer or just get out on a hard Brexit as that is the terms of art 50. There will be no cancellation of the art 50 letter. The UK will be leaving by the 29th of March 2019 or sooner.

The UK is fucked and good fucking luck to you. Within five years you will be grovelling back but next time there will be no opt-outs, acceptance of the Euro and Schengen.

pEr

You are right to assume the EU has all the power. The UK monkeys think they have a point to make but they dont. Half of UK trade is with the EU just how are they going to replace it? Everything governed by WTO. The tariffs will be horrendous. On UK cars it will 18% to start with. Davis talks about 'frictionless' borders. Who is he kidding? He is a bloody nutter. All border crossings will jammed costing millions.

[rainbow]

I don't think the EU buys much UK beer.

You are correct. There is very little demand for dishwater and horse's piss.

[rainbow]

This hard and soft Brexit terminology is bollocks, and should never be used by the vote-leavers (the majority).

The actual choice is REAL Brexit, or FAKE Brexit.

Real Brexit is when you leave, become an independent country, and control your own borders, and obey your own laws and courts.

FFS.

You already have all that as part of the EU.

When you finally get newpapers and tv in your part of the world, you will eventually catch up.

Yes, in Africa we connect to the internet by wiring up a rusty typewriter to a telephone pole.

[pErvinalia]

You are right to assume the EU has all the power. The UK monkeys think they have a point to make but they dont. Half of UK trade is with the EU just how are they going to replace it?

They aren't, it won't need replacing. They will just renegotiate trade deals with the EU. Again, money talks. EU businesses will still want what the UK is selling (minus some financial services) and the UK businesses will still want what the EU is selling. This nonsense that the EU will cut off its nose to spite its face is ridiculous.

[Scot Dutchy]

You are right to assume the EU has all the power. The UK monkeys think they have a point to make but they dont. Half of UK trade is with the EU just how are they going to replace it?

They aren't, it won't need replacing. They will just renegotiate trade deals with the EU. Again, money talks. EU businesses will still want what the UK is selling (minus some financial services) and the UK businesses will still want what the EU is selling. This nonsense that the EU will cut off its nose to spite its face is ridiculous.

Sorry but you are making too many presumptions.

1. The EU does not need the UK to trade whereas the UK needs the EU. 8% EU trade to the UK and 48% UK trade to the EU.
2. There wont be a trade deal. The EU will only accept a trade deal based on the four freedoms and the UK will never accept that.
3. The EU will not cut off its nose to spite its face. It has principles and due to its economic clout it enforces them as Switzerland found out.
4. That the EU and the UK are equal in these negotiations. This is far from the truth as you can get. The EU is playing the tune and the UK has to dance to it.

[pErvinalia]

You are right to assume the EU has all the power. The UK monkeys think they have a point to make but they dont. Half of UK trade is with the EU just how are they going to replace it?

They aren't, it won't need replacing. They will just renegotiate trade deals with the EU. Again, money talks. EU businesses will still want what the UK is selling (minus some financial services) and the UK businesses will still want what the EU is selling. This nonsense that the EU will cut off its nose to spite its face is ridiculous.

Sorry but you are making too many presumptions.

1. The EU does not need the UK to trade whereas the UK needs the EU. 8% EU trade to the UK and 48% UK trade to the EU.

8% isn't nothing. It's a huge amount. If you think the EU technocrats would willingly shrink their economy by 8% you are nuts. Money talks.

2. There wont be a trade deal. The EU will only accept a trade deal based on the four freedoms and the UK will never accept that.

At risk of getting ridiculed again because I haven't researched all the ins and outs of this brexit thing, what are the "four freedoms"? I find it very hard to believe that two countries who are happily trading now would be happy to not trade in the future. Trade is everything. Without it economies tank.

3. The EU will not cut off its nose to spite its face. It has principles and due to its economic clout it enforces them as Switzerland found out.

That's what 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' means. That is, the EU would be doing that if they were happy to smash their economy by 10% over issues of principles. The saying refers to favouring principles over pragmatics.

4. That the EU and the UK are equal in these negotiations. This is far from the truth as you can get. The EU is playing the tune and the UK has to dance to it.

I've never made that presumption, and in fact you quoted my recent post where I stated that the EU had more power. Perhaps you could try and keep up with what even you yourself have written (quoted) in your posts? Anyway, the fact that the EU has more power than the UK doesn't mean that the EU gets everything it wants and the UK gets nothing. That's ridiculous and simplistic dichotomous thinking. There's almost no doubt that the EU will do way better out of this whole thing than the UK. But that's not the same as saying that the UK will end up with an economy 50% smaller. Let's check back in 2020 or thereabouts and see if the UK economy is 50% the size it is now. You say some ridiculous things, but I don't think even you'd come out with something that ridiculous. Want to prove me wrong?