Ban all genital mutilation of children

[mistermack]

Wait till growth is over, you can't a;lter a growing organism with previsible and lasting results.

That might be right. I'm just saying that I don't object in principle.
The practicalities are down to the clinicians.

As far as the Mayo Clinic goes, it appears to be anecdotal rather than study based.
They quote the AAP as SAYING that the benefits outweigh the risks. Again, it sounds like anecdotal evidence. In any case, the risks are minimal, so it's easy to make the case for the benefits outweighing them. You're comparing minimal with minimal.
And who in the AAP gave their opinion anyway? Lots of jews go in for medicine.

Much of the "benefits" can be claimed for instances where it would have been done anyway, for medical reasons, like my brother.

Were these cases excluded from the alleged studies that we haven't seen any link to?

[tattuchu]

I think parents do it here simply as a custom or habit. It's gone on so long that a circumcised penis is now considered "normal" and is the way a penis is "supposed" to look. People just don't know anything else (although that's changing now).

I never saw an uncircumcised dick growing up. If I had, I would've been confused and horrified. What's wrong with your dick? I might've said. Why does it look like that?? It would've seemed bizarre to me -- alien.

[NineBerry]

I never saw any other person's dick growing up. Like seriously, Germany is supposed to be the country where everyone is nude all the time, not the US.

[pErvinalia]

Really? Europeans get their gear off here at the drop of a hat. In fact my former deputy boss, a German, got nekkid when we were on christmas Island and going for a swim. That's just too much for a workplace. I don't want to see my bosses in the nud. Some of my female colleagues on the other hand...

[mistermack]

What I can say from my own experience, is that I could never be a porn star.
My dick is far too sensitive to have the abuse that they put them through in porn.
Maybe mine is more sensitive than the average uncircumcised dick, but I couldn't even let someone touch it (uncovered) by hand without copious lubrication. What they do in porn films would put me through the ceiling in pain.

I don't think people who are circumcised are aware of just how much sensitivity they have lost.

[Scot Dutchy]

Mine was never sensitive thank goodness.

[Animavore]

They must have willies on their minds.

Exchange the words.

[Forty Two]

Wait till growth is over, you can't a;lter a growing organism with previsible and lasting results.

That might be right. I'm just saying that I don't object in principle.
The practicalities are down to the clinicians.

As far as the Mayo Clinic goes, it appears to be anecdotal rather than study based.
They quote the AAP as SAYING that the benefits outweigh the risks. Again, it sounds like anecdotal evidence. In any case, the risks are minimal, so it's easy to make the case for the benefits outweighing them. You're comparing minimal with minimal.
And who in the AAP gave their opinion anyway? Lots of jews go in for medicine.

Much of the "benefits" can be claimed for instances where it would have been done anyway, for medical reasons, like my brother.

Were these cases excluded from the alleged studies that we haven't seen any link to?

What do you mean that you haven't seen any link to? I gave links, including to the NPR article about the AAP task force on the issue, and the link to the actual detailed study - the whole thing.

I'm the only one whose posted any evidence of any kind, incidentally (other than anecdotal personal experience).

[mistermack]

What do you mean that you haven't seen any link to? I gave links, including to the NPR article about the AAP task force on the issue, and the link to the actual detailed study - the whole thing.

I'm the only one whose posted any evidence of any kind, incidentally (other than anecdotal personal experience).

Those links don't link to any study.
The one thing masquerading as a study was just a trawl through old data.
And the flaws are immediate and obvious. They have the cheek to say that it doesn't affect sensitivity. That's reason enough to bin it right there.

And the response to it accuses them of cherry picking. And that seems pretty accurate to me.

As far as the main advantage are concerned, firstly the reduction in urinary infections in the first year. I can accept that, but I don't accept that it's necessarily a good thing from the immune system point of view. They haven't addressed that at all.

Then the reduction in sexually transmitted diseases.
That is surely a choice the adult should be making, not the parent.
By all means, if someone wants their dick mutilated for that reason, and they are over 18, let them go ahead. It's no reason to be forcing it on babies.

So your links are bollocks.
Sorry I missed them. It's easy to miss a few pages of your posts, without noticing.
You can't read all of your stuff. Life's too short.

[pErvinalia]

As far as the main advantage are concerned, firstly the reduction in urinary infections in the first year. I can accept that, but I don't accept that it's necessarily a good thing from the immune system point of view. They haven't addressed that at all.

I don't think the immune system needs full blown infections to benefit from bacterial exposure. The bacteria that cause those infections are likely there at various times in most people, they are just kept in check by the immune system.

[Brian Peacock]

I personally don't believe the "evidence" of medical benefits.
Those sorts of studies can be easily bent to conclude what you want, and with religious organisations looking on, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the conclusions weren't pre-ordered.

My brother, who is three years older than me, was circumcised as a baby for medical reasons, and I was not.
He's suffered recently from a succession of infections and kidney stones. I can only remember one mild infection in my whole life.

And anyway, infections that you get as a child can play an important part in stimulating the immune system. So maybe I got protection that way as a baby and he didn't.

My brother, who's 3 years younger than me, isn't circumcised and has broken his collar bone 4 times. That's a pretty strong medical case for the snip I think.

[Svartalf]

Ironymeter not even registering, illogical meter beyond scale though...

[mistermack]

I quoted one genuine relevant case, the facts of which I know to be true.

That's infinity percent more than anyone else has quoted.
I win.

[Forty Two]

I quoted one genuine relevant case, the facts of which I know to be true.

That's infinity percent more than anyone else has quoted.
I win.

One anecdote is infinity more than data collected and analyzed by researchers with the AAP, and the CDC, and the association of gynecologists, and the Mayo Clinic?

[Forty Two]

What do you mean that you haven't seen any link to? I gave links, including to the NPR article about the AAP task force on the issue, and the link to the actual detailed study - the whole thing.

I'm the only one whose posted any evidence of any kind, incidentally (other than anecdotal personal experience).

Those links don't link to any study.
The one thing masquerading as a study was just a trawl through old data.

It was a study of the available date, not "old data." It's the most recent data. Your counter that is "none" and "I think that sensitivity is reduced, even though the available data says overall ,generally speaking, it isn't." And, You say you found flaws with the study, but you identify zero, other than declaring it "cheek" to say it doesn't affect sensitivity.

Look, this was a modification of the AAP's position on the topic from about 15-20 years previously. They had no problem, previously, publishing reports which was not favorably disposed toward circumcision. They assigned a task force and reviewed the available data, and found clear benefits which outweigh the risks, according to the data. And, I'm not sure why the Obama administration would be pro circumcision.

So, I'm not getting where you're bias and behind the scenes pro-circumcision agenda implied accusation comes from. it all seems very clinical and data driven to me.