Ban all genital mutilation of children

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Re: Ban all genital mutilation of children

Post by Alan B » Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:45 pm

Just popped into this thread and I thought: 'Ears are now genitalia?' :ask:
Last edited by Alan B on Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ban all genital mutilation of children

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:46 pm

Forty Two wrote:
pErvin wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
NineBerry wrote:Piercing a baby's ear lobes. The hole will be gone within days unless you make the baby wear earrings.
This is not a mysterious process. There are earrings made for babies.
It's pretty mysterious here. Sounds like it's common in the US. Another head-scratching moment about the US... :?
It's most prevalent among Latin cultures - Spain and hispanic countries in general, and latin countries, including Brazil. Central America, the Caribbean, etc.

So, really, dude, can you cut it, for once, with suggesting that something you don't like is a particular "problem" in the US, and nowhere else? Why don't you say "It's pretty mysterious here, sounds like it's common in Hispanic countries and Brazil. Another head scratching moment for the Hispanic countries and Brazil....?" It's a very accepted part of those cultures.
Because I had no idea it was common in those countries. I had no idea it was common anywhere until you mentioned it. Can you cut it, for once, with your butthurt about criticisms of the US?
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Re: Ban all genital mutilation of children

Post by Forty Two » Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:52 pm

pErvin wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
mistermack wrote:
Forty Two wrote:It's done because it's easiest to do at that age.
That's a pretty dumb statement.

That's not the reason it's done. It's done because the parents want it.
Well, sure, that too. And, parents recognize the prevalence of kids wanting earrings as they get older, and it's much easier to do it when the child is an infant than when they are 5 or even 10.
But the kid hasn't asked for it. The parents want it.
Nobody is disputing that. The kids don't ask for haircuts or to have their nails clipped, either. The parents want it.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Ban all genital mutilation of children

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:36 pm

Forty Two wrote:
mistermack wrote:
Forty Two wrote:It's done because it's easiest to do at that age.
That's a pretty dumb statement.

That's not the reason it's done. It's done because the parents want it.
Well, sure, that too. And, parents recognize the prevalence of kids wanting earrings as they get older, and it's much easier to do it when the child is an infant than when they are 5 or even 10.
What infant male wants someone to take a knife to their penis?
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Re: Ban all genital mutilation of children

Post by NineBerry » Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:41 pm

Alan B wrote:Just popped into this thread and I thought: 'Ears are now genitalia?' :ask:
Do you want to discriminate Ferengi?

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Re: Ban all genital mutilation of children

Post by Forty Two » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:16 pm

pErvin wrote: Because I had no idea it was common in those countries. I had no idea it was common anywhere until you mentioned it. Can you cut it, for once, with your butthurt about criticisms of the US?
LOL, it's not "criticisms of the US" that's the problem. It's the bullshit ignorant nonsense that some, like you, constantly puke up in these threads in furtherance of silly notions that you have about what life is like in the United States.

And, I doubt ear piercing of children is less prevalent in Oz, given the ease with which I found many, many locations advertising such services in Australia. In Australia, apparently, it's common enough to have salons offering to pierce baby's ears at "at least 6 weeks" and they have multiple locations all over your country. https://www.essentialbeauty.com.au/ It took about ten seconds for me to find many, many locations that do this. Apparently, there's enough of a market in Oz to justify a business line for this national company in Oz. I suspect Oz is not that much different than the US, with various viewpoints on the topic. So stuff it.
Last edited by Forty Two on Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Ban all genital mutilation of children

Post by Forty Two » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:23 pm

Brian Peacock wrote: What infant male wants someone to take a knife to their penis?
What infant male "wants" anything? They don't think like that yet. Their bodies get hungry, and they eat. Poop wants to come out and they poop. If they feel thirst, they drink. That's it. If things babies don't want is the test for determining propriety of actions, then almost nothing we do with infants would be allowed. Half the time they don't "want" their diaper changed, or to take a bath. Every try to get one to sit still to clip their nails or cut their hair? They don't "want" that either.

But, I ventured no defense of the practice. I have no objection to people refraining from getting their kids circumcised. I am not sure I would do it if we had a male baby, although my wife has said that she would absolutely want the baby circumcised.

I did three things on this thread: (a) I addressed the comparison of circumcision of boys with the practice on females, and noted that they are not equivalent procedures. With girls, it tends to involve cutting off the clitoris and such. It's not the same thing. That's not a suggestion that it ought to be done. (b) I took issue with the use of the terms stab and mutilate and assault, because that appears to be definition creep, and it's not what is really happening in the case of male circumcision. And, (c) I posted benefits that are mentioned relative to male circumcision published by the Mayo Clinic (which is not a fly-by-night or religious organization).
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Ban all genital mutilation of children

Post by Hermit » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:26 pm

Forty Two wrote:
pErvin wrote:
Forty Two wrote:It's done because it's easiest to do at that age.
That's not the reason it's done. It's done because the parents want it.
Nobody is disputing that. The kids don't ask for haircuts or to have their nails clipped, either. The parents want it.
Cutting hair and clipping nails is no different to lopping the foreskin off a penis. Brilliant! Why didn't you think of that, rEv?
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Re: Ban all genital mutilation of children

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:26 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote: What infant male wants someone to take a knife to their penis?
What infant male "wants" anything? They don't think like that yet. Their bodies get hungry, and they eat. Poop wants to come out and they poop. If they feel thirst, they drink. That's it. If things babies don't want is the test for determining propriety of actions, then almost nothing we do with infants would be allowed. Half the time they don't "want" their diaper changed, or to take a bath. Every try to get one to sit still to clip their nails or cut their hair? They don't "want" that either.

But, I ventured no defense of the practice. I have no objection to people refraining from getting their kids circumcised. I am not sure I would do it if we had a male baby, although my wife has said that she would absolutely want the baby circumcised.

I did three things on this thread: (a) I addressed the comparison of circumcision of boys with the practice on females, and noted that they are not equivalent procedures. With girls, it tends to involve cutting off the clitoris and such. It's not the same thing. That's not a suggestion that it ought to be done. (b) I took issue with the use of the terms stab and mutilate and assault, because that appears to be definition creep, and it's not what is really happening in the case of male circumcision. And, (c) I posted benefits that are mentioned relative to male circumcision published by the Mayo Clinic (which is not a fly-by-night or religious organization).
In removing my question from the post it was remarking upon you've divested of it's proper context. Please try again.
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Re: Ban all genital mutilation of children

Post by Forty Two » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:36 pm

Hermit wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
pErvin wrote:
Forty Two wrote:It's done because it's easiest to do at that age.
That's not the reason it's done. It's done because the parents want it.
Nobody is disputing that. The kids don't ask for haircuts or to have their nails clipped, either. The parents want it.
Cutting hair and clipping nails is no different to lopping the foreskin off a penis. Brilliant! Why didn't you think of that, rEv?
They are different, but the reason I mentioned them are examples of other things babies likely don't want. It wasn't to present an absolute equivalence of the procedures.

Likewise, cutting off a bit of foreskin is very different than cutting off a clitoris. So, if we are discussing material differences, there is one right there.

There are degrees in everything. Moreover, Hermit, the exchange between myself and pervin there involved ear piercing, not circumcision, which is a bit of a tangent on this thread.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Ban all genital mutilation of children

Post by Forty Two » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:38 pm

@Brian Peacock - This was the post you responded to "Well, sure, that too. And, parents recognize the prevalence of kids wanting earrings as they get older, and it's much easier to do it when the child is an infant than when they are 5 or even 10." And, that was referring to earrings.

You then responded by asking what infant wants to be circumcised, and I think responded with the above. What's the problem?

No infant "wants" to be circumcised. Who said they did? Why is that relevant?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Ban all genital mutilation of children

Post by Hermit » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:44 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Hermit wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
pErvin wrote:
Forty Two wrote:It's done because it's easiest to do at that age.
That's not the reason it's done. It's done because the parents want it.
Nobody is disputing that. The kids don't ask for haircuts or to have their nails clipped, either. The parents want it.
There are degrees in everything.
Glad you noticed, albeit belatedly. While I agree that a cliterectomy is worse than circumcision, which in turn is worse than puncturing earlobes, I would not use haircuts and nail clipping as justification that the wishes of parents are unobjectionable in regard to lopping off foreskin or making holes in earlobes.
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Re: Ban all genital mutilation of children

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:54 pm

Forty Two wrote:@Brian Peacock - This was the post you responded to "Well, sure, that too. And, parents recognize the prevalence of kids wanting earrings as they get older, and it's much easier to do it when the child is an infant than when they are 5 or even 10." And, that was referring to earrings.

You then responded by asking what infant wants to be circumcised, and I think responded with the above. What's the problem?

No infant "wants" to be circumcised. Who said they did? Why is that relevant?
But parents recognise that children commonly want earrings as they get older so parents get their kid's ears pierced when they're an infant because it's easier, apparently. Are you happy with parents assuming the future desires of their children and acting on that assumption to mark, deform, or mutilate their children's bodies permanently, and does this argument also apply to circumcision - "When he's older Little Johnny will want us to have had him circumcised while he was an infant" ?
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Re: Ban all genital mutilation of children

Post by JimC » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:23 pm

Forty Two wrote:

Likewise, cutting off a bit of foreskin is very different than cutting off a clitoris. So, if we are discussing material differences, there is one right there.
I agree that there is a significant difference, enough so that society is totally justified in banning female genital mutilation, and that circumcision be left up to parents to decide. Having said that, the zeitgeist on that issue is moving, and it is less common than it was, possibly for good reason.
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Re: Ban all genital mutilation of children

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:58 am

Forty Two wrote:
pErvin wrote: Because I had no idea it was common in those countries. I had no idea it was common anywhere until you mentioned it. Can you cut it, for once, with your butthurt about criticisms of the US?
LOL, it's not "criticisms of the US" that's the problem. It's the bullshit ignorant nonsense that some, like you, constantly puke up in these threads in furtherance of silly notions that you have about what life is like in the United States.
I.e. criticisms of the US. :roll:
And, I doubt ear piercing of children is less prevalent in Oz,
It's the bullshit ignorant nonsense that some, like you, constantly puke up in these threads in furtherance of silly notions that you have about what life is like in Australia.

given the ease with which I found many, many locations advertising such services in Australia. In Australia, apparently, it's common enough to have salons offering to pierce baby's ears at "at least 6 weeks" and they have multiple locations all over your country. https://www.essentialbeauty.com.au/ It took about ten seconds for me to find many, many locations that do this. Apparently, there's enough of a market in Oz to justify a business line for this national company in Oz. I suspect Oz is not that much different than the US, with various viewpoints on the topic. So stuff it.
You are clueless, as usual. I would have seen probably a total of 5 babies (and only a handful more under 8's) with their ears pierced in Australia in my life. And for all I know, they were Americans here on holiday. To see a baby with it's ears pierced is an incredibly rare sight here in Australia. There may be migrant communities where it is more common (I'm thinking Indian, perhaps), hence the need for those salons.
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