Venezuela - Example of How Socialism Leads to Dictatorship?

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Venezuela - Example of How Socialism Leads to Dictatorship?

Post by Forty Two » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:59 pm

http://reason.com/archives/2017/04/04/f ... ctatorship
Last week's episode is only the latest reminder of the tendency of socialism to lead to dictatorship, as identified by the Nobel Prize-winning economist Friedrich Hayek in The Road to Serfdom.

In 1944, when he wrote his book, Hayek noted that the crimes of the German National Socialists and Soviet Communists were, in great part, the result of growing state control over the economy. As he explained, growing state interference in the economy leads to massive inefficiencies and long queues outside empty shops. A state of perpetual economic crisis then leads to calls for more planning.

But economic planning is inimical to freedom. As there can be no agreement on a single plan in a free society, the centralization of economic decision-making has to be accompanied by centralization of political power in the hands of a small elite. When, in the end, the failure of central planning becomes undeniable, totalitarian regimes tend to silence the dissenters
Recommended reading: "The Road to Serfdom," by FA Hayek. https://iea.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2 ... 351pdf.pdf

Let's talk about where the Reason article and/or FA Hayek has it wrong.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Venezuela - Example of How Socialism Leads to Dictatorsh

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:04 pm

ABC in Australia presented an undercover report from Venezuela last week. Doesn't look good there.
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Re: Venezuela - Example of How Socialism Leads to Dictatorsh

Post by Forty Two » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:25 pm

Absolutely not. I notice not too many visits from Sean Penn to Venezuela, now that his hero Hugo is a distant memory...
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Venezuela - Example of How Socialism Leads to Dictatorsh

Post by Forty Two » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:29 pm

What did Venezuelans use to light their homes with before using candles?
Trigger Warning!!!1! :
Electricity.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Venezuela - Example of How Socialism Leads to Dictatorsh

Post by NineBerry » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:30 pm

As far as I rememeber, the economic problems in the 1920ies were not based on too much state control of economy, rather the opposite.

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Re: Venezuela - Example of How Socialism Leads to Dictatorsh

Post by Forty Two » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:31 pm

What's 150 yards long and eats nothing but rice?
Trigger Warning!!!1! :
A Caracas queue waiting to buy groceries.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Venezuela - Example of How Socialism Leads to Dictatorsh

Post by Forty Two » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:49 pm

NineBerry wrote:As far as I rememeber, the economic problems in the 1920ies were not based on too much state control of economy, rather the opposite.
That is the high school textbook version of events, but, it's long been understood to be incorrect. See, Friedman, A Monetary History of the United States, 1867 - 1960 - https://muse.jhu.edu/book/36656 The Great Depression was not caused by the 1929 stock market bubble popping, but rather it was caused by the policies of the then 15 year old Federal Reserve, which caused the depression by its disastrous policies.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Venezuela - Example of How Socialism Leads to Dictatorsh

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:53 pm

The federal reserve isn't state control of the economy.
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Re: Venezuela - Example of How Socialism Leads to Dictatorsh

Post by Forty Two » Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:14 pm

In the US the Federal Reserve is overseen by the government, and it gets its power from the Federal Reserve Act. It has tremendous power over banking and finance. In 1929, the Fed set restrictive monetary policies which directly caused the Great Contraction. This was a period of falling income, prices, and employment caused by the choking effects of the Feds' restricted money supply. In 2007, Ben Bernanke acknowledged his agreement with Friedman's view of it. But, anyway, the point made above was that the Great Depression was due to not enough government intervention, but that isn't what caused it.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Venezuela - Example of How Socialism Leads to Dictatorsh

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:26 pm

The Fed is an independent body.
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Re: Venezuela - Example of How Socialism Leads to Dictatorsh

Post by NineBerry » Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:37 pm

Forty Two wrote:
NineBerry wrote:As far as I rememeber, the economic problems in the 1920ies were not based on too much state control of economy, rather the opposite.
That is the high school textbook version of events, but, it's long been understood to be incorrect. See, Friedman, A Monetary History of the United States, 1867 - 1960 - https://muse.jhu.edu/book/36656 The Great Depression was not caused by the 1929 stock market bubble popping, but rather it was caused by the policies of the then 15 year old Federal Reserve, which caused the depression by its disastrous policies.
Evolution did not happen. That is only the high school textbook version of events, but, it's long been understood to be incorrect. See, Kent Hovind, Series of youtube videos.

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Re: Venezuela - Example of How Socialism Leads to Dictatorsh

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:39 pm

:lol:
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Re: Venezuela - Example of How Socialism Leads to Dictatorsh

Post by Forty Two » Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:01 pm

NineBerry wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
NineBerry wrote:As far as I rememeber, the economic problems in the 1920ies were not based on too much state control of economy, rather the opposite.
That is the high school textbook version of events, but, it's long been understood to be incorrect. See, Friedman, A Monetary History of the United States, 1867 - 1960 - https://muse.jhu.edu/book/36656 The Great Depression was not caused by the 1929 stock market bubble popping, but rather it was caused by the policies of the then 15 year old Federal Reserve, which caused the depression by its disastrous policies.
Evolution did not happen. That is only the high school textbook version of events, but, it's long been understood to be incorrect. See, Kent Hovind, Series of youtube videos.
Oh, well, Ben Bernanke agrees with Milton Friedman, and comparing Milton Friedman who won the Nobel Prize in Economics for his achievements in the fields of consumption analysis, monetary history and theory and for his demonstration of the complexity of stabilization policy...well, if you think that's like comparing evolutionary science to Kent Hovind, I guess you can stick with that opinion. :coffee:
His major work, A Monetary History of the United States,1867 - 1960, is regarded as one of Friedman's most profound and also most distinguished achievements. Most outstanding is, perhaps, his original and energetically pursued study of the strategic role played by the policy of the Federal Reserve System in sparking off the 1929 crisis, and in deepening and prolonging the depression that followed. The critics agree that this is a monumental scientific work which will long stimulate the re-examination of the course of events during this epoch.
http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/ ... press.html

:hilarious:
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Venezuela - Example of How Socialism Leads to Dictatorsh

Post by Hermit » Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:47 pm

Forty Two wrote:
NineBerry wrote:As far as I rememeber, the economic problems in the 1920ies were not based on too much state control of economy, rather the opposite.
That is the high school textbook version of events, but, it's long been understood to be incorrect.
You write as though the debate between the Keynesians and the monetarists has been settled once and for all. Please keep in mind that the description of the field of the economy as the "Dismal Science" applies as much today as it did when Thomas Carlyle coined ( :hehe: ) it in 1850.

As for Venezuela, I think dictatorships always arise when a small group of people manage to place themselves above the law. Eventually one member among that group will prevail. Dictatorships can come from the right as easily as the left. Countries governed as democracies are the exception rather than the rule. That is the case now as it was in the past.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: Venezuela - Example of How Socialism Leads to Dictatorsh

Post by Tero » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:31 pm

Tremendous. Really tremendous country. Most tremendous socialism in the New World. Nicolas Maduro is a good friend of mine, sends me all the coffee and cocaine we use at mar a lago. I fly down there all the time, before I became President, and judge the Miss Teenage Venezuela contest.Miss Universe from Venezuela is a personal friend of mine. I send her sacks of rice.
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