Netherlands Election 2017

[NineBerry]

There's also a difference in what the parties need to be effective. The usual Dutch parties are successful when they can be part of a coalition. Wilders has no one to form a coalition with. His only success would be to have enough seats to prevent all other parties from forming a working coalition.

However, one has to admit that Wilders did have some success in influencing the position of other parties with regard to the questions he's interested in.

[Tyrannical]

There's also a difference in what the parties need to be effective. The usual Dutch parties are successful when they can be part of a coalition. Wilders has no one to form a coalition with. His only success would be to have enough seats to prevent all other parties from forming a working coalition.

However, one has to admit that Wilders did have some success in influencing the position of other parties with regard to the questions he's interested in.

And when Trump visits the Netherlands, he'll be all, but where is my friend Wilders? Ah, there you are! Great to see you! You'll make the Dutch great again! Now, point out the pm for me?

[Woodbutcher]

Trump's not gonna travel to other countries, he's afraid of falling off the edge. Also, he's afraid that they will sink when he lands on them because they look so small on the map.

[pErvinalia]

[Scot Dutchy]

It would not be healthy to travel. He would have to breathe in unadulterated air. Travelling to countries like the Netherlands would be a life shattering experience.

[Forty Two]

There's also a difference in what the parties need to be effective. The usual Dutch parties are successful when they can be part of a coalition. Wilders has no one to form a coalition with. His only success would be to have enough seats to prevent all other parties from forming a working coalition.

However, one has to admit that Wilders did have some success in influencing the position of other parties with regard to the questions he's interested in.

Indeed, however, I find it hard to reconcile the fact that now the PVV is the second largest party in the county, behind only the VVD, and yet the election is being touted (by Progressive elements) as a massive defeat for the PVV. Yet, clearly their influence is greater now than before election. It's as if a failure of the PVV to achieve what they've never before come close to achieving, and what several other parties in the Netherlands have never come close to achieving, is an existential defeat for them, even though they did better than all but one other political party.....

[Forty Two]

The point is, it looks like PVV is still trending up, and getting more and more seats each election.

That is factually wrong. The PVV gained 5 seats in this election, but it lost 9 in the previous one. I pointed this out to you here. Are you into alternative facts? It seems to be something right wingers are particularly fond of.

They gained 5 seats, and the VVD lost 8 or 9. The other parties have fewer seats, in the last article I looked at, than the PVV, making the PVV the party with the second most seats. That sure looks like a good result for them. They've never had more than 24 seats.

Nobody denies that the PVV is five seats better off now than during the previous parliamentary term, by the way. Scott is merely arguing that the party has a snowflake's chance in hell of becoming part of a coalition government. Despite its five seat gain it is destined to remain on the fringe among policy makers, at least in the foreseeable future.

Yes, I know that he's arguing that. But, they've NEVER had a snowflake's chance in hell of being part of a coalition government. That's never been the case, so they didn't lose that chance this election. All they did was gain, and become the party with the second most seats.

If the PVV is "destined to remain on the fringe" even though it gained 5 seats. However, that was no less true at any time before, right? So, this election was not itself a big loss for the PVV. It was gain for the PVV. If the next election sees a similar gain, say to 25 seats, wouldn't that be a really nice result and an indication that they are far from dead?

I've not argued for the notion that they were the big winners. I've merely pointed out that it's curious to count them as "dead" and this election as some sort of "trouncing" of the PVV. It doesn't seem like a trounce, based on the numbers.

[Forty Two]

CDA and D66 got only 19 seats to PVV's 20. Why, then, is the news reporting that PVV "tumbled" and VVD soundly trounced the PVV, but they do not report that the VVD trounced CDA and D66? Why is the PVV "dead", but the CDA and D66 are apparently doing great, even though they were beaten by the PVV?

Because success is relative. The Christian Democrats and Social Liberals gained 6 and 7 seats respectively. The opinion polling was saying for ages that Wilders' fascists were going to win the most seats, but in the end they finished 13 seats behind the Market Liberals.

I didn't see any opinion polling at all that said that the PVV would win the most seats. Quite the opposite. And, so if success is relative, then they gained 5 seats. I suppose if they gained 6, it would have been a eyebrow raising success.....

[Hermit]

The point is, it looks like PVV is still trending up, and getting more and more seats each election.

That is factually wrong. The PVV gained 5 seats in this election, but it lost 9 in the previous one. I pointed this out to you here. Are you into alternative facts? It seems to be something right wingers are particularly fond of.

They gained 5 seats, and the VVD lost 8 or 9. The other parties have fewer seats, in the last article I looked at, than the PVV, making the PVV the party with the second most seats. That sure looks like a good result for them. They've never had more than 24 seats.

Ahem.

[Forty Two]

24 doesn't seem that bad -- in a country where several parties have fewer than 20, and the one with the most seats has 33, one might see 20 or 24 as certainly within striking distance....

If you look at the totality of their history, while they had a peak and a setback, their trend is upward from their inception to date. No party has exclusively a straight line up -- over time, even a party gaining influence will have a jagged line.

[Scot Dutchy]

Look just read and understand.
PVV ARE ISOLATED.
No body but nobody will work with them.
It does not matter how many seats they win unless it is over 76 it does not matter. No one party as ever had a majority since the 19th century.
The PVV will be dead before the next election because everyone will have realised how futile it is to belong to a renegade party. This has happened in the past to other ludicrous parties.

So stop going on how the PVV will get into power. It will never.

[Forty Two]

I understand that, but that's not a function of this election. Nobody was going to work with them before.

Obviously, if they gained a plurality of seats, say they replaced the VVD and got 33 seats and dropped the VVD to 20, and all the rest stayed the same, then the power of the PVV would shift and another party or two would have the incentive to work with them, if only to take advantage of an opportunity to gain support..

[Scot Dutchy]

I understand that, but that's not a function of this election. Nobody was going to work with them before.

Obviously, if they gained a plurality of seats, say they replaced the VVD and got 33 seats and dropped the VVD to 20, and all the rest stayed the same, then the power of the PVV would shift and another party or two would have the incentive to work with them, if only to take advantage of an opportunity to gain support..

You still dont understand do you?

No party and I mean no party will work with Wilders.

Stop getting your anglo-saxon befuddled logic caught up in simple Dutch logic. Wilders has been declared unfit for working with. Nobody cooperates with him anywhere. Because his party has only one member it is given an office for one member.

[Forty Two]

That wasn't a function of THIS ELECTION. No party was willing to work with him before.

But, because they won't work within him now does not mean that they won't work with him if the PVV gains even more seats and takes the place of the VVD.

[Strontium Dog]

I didn't see any opinion polling at all that said that the PVV would win the most seats.

With respect, what you have and haven't seen has no bearing on whether something exists or not.