Yeah, yer mum.DaveDodo007 wrote:Interesting claim, have you any evidence to back this up?pErvin wrote:The fascists and the conservative state are already violent. We literally have nothing to lose by punching these cunts.
The Ethics of Punching Nazis
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Re: The Ethics of Punching Nazis
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Re: The Ethics of Punching Nazis
Nah. Agreeing with the adoption of violence as a political tactic serves to legitimize the violence of repressive governments and political thugs in general. Black bloc tactics give cover for violent repression of peaceful protest.pErvin wrote:The fascists and the conservative state are already violent. We literally have nothing to lose by punching these cunts.
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Re: The Ethics of Punching Nazis
Violent repression happens anyway regardless of what tactics protesters adopt.
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"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
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Re: The Ethics of Punching Nazis
Having said that, it's not even necessarily a body politic issue. In this case it's about individuals taking a stand against reprehensible individuals.
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"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
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Re: The Ethics of Punching Nazis
Violent expression, resistance, first needs some repressive agent to expressive yourself about and against. Otherwise you're just a guy looking for a punch-up.pErvin wrote:Violent repression happens anyway regardless of what tactics protesters adopt.
You know what many blokes are like don't you(?), strutting peacocks imagining scenarios where they can be the hero of the hour and adored by the few and by the many? Nazis are souped up peacocks with far slacker morals than your average bloke, they aren't in politics for the good but for the vindication; the adoration--however forced--that flows from the power, the control, and the fear they can inspire. For Nazis politics is just a disposable ladder to elevated status, and access to chicks - some Nazis are just nicer about it than others.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: The Ethics of Punching Nazis
It can work that way, but it is not the norm in peaceful democratic nations. The Women's March was overwhelmingly peaceful, for instance, and I'm unaware of any violent police response to it. ("Not a Single Arrest in Massive D.C. Women's March") However, when protesters engage in violence they elicit a violent response, and the government will have no problem justifying that reactive violence.pErvin wrote:Violent repression happens anyway regardless of what tactics protesters adopt.
Do you actually believe that when a person finds somebody else reprehensible they are justified in taking violent aggressive action, even when the victim of that aggression has not advocated violence, let alone engaged in it?pErvin wrote:Having said that, it's not even necessarily a body politic issue. In this case it's about individuals taking a stand against reprehensible individuals.
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Re: The Ethics of Punching Nazis
Precisely. Kent State is a perfect example. As was Chicago '68, Selma, and any number of other protests that were met with fire hoses and attack dogs, whether violent OR peaceful. You piss them off enough and they'll start shooting. If you don't think the Trumpster will call out the National Guard then you're living in a dream world.L'Emmerdeur wrote:However, when protesters engage in violence they elicit a violent response, and the government will have no problem justifying that reactive violence.
We're in for a rough ride. My plan is to keep a low a profile and let somebody else take the rubber bullets. I'm too old for that shit.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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Re: The Ethics of Punching Nazis
The state will almost certainly resort to violence and/or repression as a last means (and sometimes even a first means). If those women's protests keep happening, then I suspect the situation would change.L'Emmerdeur wrote:It can work that way, but it is not the norm in peaceful democratic nations. The Women's March was overwhelmingly peaceful, for instance, and I'm unaware of any violent police response to it. ("Not a Single Arrest in Massive D.C. Women's March") However, when protesters engage in violence they elicit a violent response, and the government will have no problem justifying that reactive violence.pErvin wrote:Violent repression happens anyway regardless of what tactics protesters adopt.
It depends on what you mean by "justified". Legally, no. Ethically, perhaps. Ultimately we are all responsible for any "evils" we walk past and ignore. It's up to individuals to decide whether their ethics justify them punching (or otherwise) other people.Do you actually believe that when a person finds somebody else reprehensible they are justified in taking violent aggressive action, even when the victim of that aggression has not advocated violence, let alone engaged in it?pErvin wrote:Having said that, it's not even necessarily a body politic issue. In this case it's about individuals taking a stand against reprehensible individuals.
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"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
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Re: The Ethics of Punching Nazis
It certainly will change if black bloc bozos start getting involved, with their nit-witted hijinks.pErvin wrote:The state will almost certainly resort to violence and/or repression as a last means (and sometimes even a first means). If those women's protests keep happening, then I suspect the situation would change.
I agree that person is always responsible for their own ethical choices. However, the choice of responses to a perceived evil like the white supremacist Spencer encompasses more than just "walk past and ignore" versus "punch that smug, vile asshole."pErvin wrote:It depends on what you mean by "justified". Legally, no. Ethically, perhaps. Ultimately we are all responsible for any "evils" we walk past and ignore. It's up to individuals to decide whether their ethics justify them punching (or otherwise) other people.L'Emmerdeur wrote:Do you actually believe that when a person finds somebody else reprehensible they are justified in taking violent aggressive action, even when the victim of that aggression has not advocated violence, let alone engaged in it?
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Re: The Ethics of Punching Nazis
Fart in his general direction, and tell him his mother smelled of elderberries?
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
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Re: The Ethics of Punching Nazis
A kick in the balls would seem reasonable. Less likely to accidentally kill someone that way.
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
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Re: The Ethics of Punching Nazis
As it will even if they don't. Look at the Occupy movement. Pretty much 100% peaceful. But the state couldn't allow the protests to continue indefinitely. They ended up resorting to counter-intelligence and infiltration, changing protest laws, and in a lot of cases violence to end the protest. The same thing would happen if these pesky women start becoming more than an inconvenient side show.L'Emmerdeur wrote:It certainly will change if black bloc bozos start getting involved, with their nit-witted hijinks.pErvin wrote:The state will almost certainly resort to violence and/or repression as a last means (and sometimes even a first means). If those women's protests keep happening, then I suspect the situation would change.
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
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Re: The Ethics of Punching Nazis
Even so, the answer to government violence isn't citizen violence. Down that path lies the asinine madness of the "2nd Amendment solution" dipshits. Pretty much any step in that direction is a fool's errand.pErvin wrote:As it will even if they don't. Look at the Occupy movement. Pretty much 100% peaceful. But the state couldn't allow the protests to continue indefinitely. They ended up resorting to counter-intelligence and infiltration, changing protest laws, and in a lot of cases violence to end the protest. The same thing would happen if these pesky women start becoming more than an inconvenient side show.L'Emmerdeur wrote:It certainly will change if black bloc bozos start getting involved, with their nit-witted hijinks.pErvin wrote:The state will almost certainly resort to violence and/or repression as a last means (and sometimes even a first means). If those women's protests keep happening, then I suspect the situation would change.
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Re: The Ethics of Punching Nazis
JimC wrote:Fart in his general direction, and tell him his mother smelled of elderberries?
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Re: The Ethics of Punching Nazis
Georg Elser. He constructed a bomb and placed it in the Bürgerbräukeller where Adolf Hitler, accompanied by Joseph Goebbels, Reinhard Heydrich, Rudolf Hess, Robert Ley, Alfred Rosenberg, Julius Streicher, August Frank, Hermann Esser and Heinrich Himmler, was going to make a speech on 8th of November 1939. Hitler and his entourage left an hour earlier than scheduled. The bomb went off 13 minutes after their departure, killing seven party faithfuls and injuring another 63 instead. Along with Canaris, Bonhoeffer and several other Nazi resistors Elser was executed in Dachau a month before the end of WWII.Svartalf wrote:Wer ist das?
A plaque in Königsbronn, the village he spent most of his childhood in, quotes him as telling the Gestapo during one of his interrogations "I wanted to prevent even greater bloodshed through my deed."
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