The Reign of Trump

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Re: The Reign of Trump

Post by JimC » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:17 am

DaveDodo007 wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:
DaveDodo007 wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:Your attempt at irony is self-defeating. Haven't you noticed that yet?
OH poor stupid me, please enlighten me were I'm wrong, I'll wait.
Have stab at a cogent point and I'll give it a go.
Been there, done that and I have the T shirt. Your whole ideology is redistribution of other people's wealth whilst patting yourself on the back for how generous you are. Really popular at first until you run out of other people's money. Then the bread lines start, cracking down on protesters. If a country is lucky you get voted out of office if not then re-education camps and gulags start. Marxism rinse and repeat.
Instead of ranting at a generalised left-wing strawman of your own invention, you should be responding to a nuanced and thoughtful set of points from Brian that are by no means drawn from a rigid ideology.

Of course, that would actually require serious thought, so I suppose it was always unlikely... :tea:
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Re: The Reign of Trump

Post by DaveDodo007 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:22 am

Brian Peacock wrote:Just 11 million deportations, taking an axe to the tax code, and a bit of brick laying to go.
Enter the country legally or get the fuck out. Reward hard/smart working people, the horror. Create jobs, ho noes, FDR will be turning in his grave (he won't.)
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Re: The Reign of Trump

Post by Tero » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:28 am

What jobs? The coal mines again? There are no factories coming back.
International disaster, gonna be a blaster
Gonna rearrange our lives
International disaster, send for the master
Don't wait to see the white of his eyes
International disaster, international disaster
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Re: The Reign of Trump

Post by DaveDodo007 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:33 am

JimC wrote:
DaveDodo007 wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:
DaveDodo007 wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:Your attempt at irony is self-defeating. Haven't you noticed that yet?
OH poor stupid me, please enlighten me were I'm wrong, I'll wait.
Have stab at a cogent point and I'll give it a go.
Been there, done that and I have the T shirt. Your whole ideology is redistribution of other people's wealth whilst patting yourself on the back for how generous you are. Really popular at first until you run out of other people's money. Then the bread lines start, cracking down on protesters. If a country is lucky you get voted out of office if not then re-education camps and gulags start. Marxism rinse and repeat.
Instead of ranting at a generalised left-wing strawman of your own invention, you should be responding to a nuanced and thoughtful set of points from Brian that are by no means drawn from a rigid ideology.

Of course, that would actually require serious thought, so I suppose it was always unlikely... :tea:
Yeah good one, you should be a comedian. Socialism lite is so nuanced and thoughtful one has to wonder why it always fails. It is almost like human beings are not biological units with their own independent thoughts, needs and desires. Who knew.
We should be MOST skeptical of ideas we like because we are sufficiently skeptical of ideas that we don't like. Penn Jillette.

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Re: The Reign of Trump

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:35 am

DaveDodo007 wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:
DaveDodo007 wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:Your attempt at irony is self-defeating. Haven't you noticed that yet?
OH poor stupid me, please enlighten me were I'm wrong, I'll wait.
Have stab at a cogent point and I'll give it a go.
Been there, done that and I have the T shirt. Your whole ideology is redistribution of other people's wealth
Protectionism is redistribution of other people's wealth WRIT LARGE! Colonialism raped the third world, and then slapped protectionisms up to stop the third world at least trying to compete on a somewhat even footing. You really are fucking clueless, aren't you?
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Re: The Reign of Trump

Post by DaveDodo007 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:39 am

Tero wrote:What jobs? The coal mines again? There are no factories coming back.
Yes they are after the free trade agreements are torn up. Also how do you fix the infrastructure of a country without creating jobs?
We should be MOST skeptical of ideas we like because we are sufficiently skeptical of ideas that we don't like. Penn Jillette.

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Re: The Reign of Trump

Post by Hermit » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:43 am

DaveDodo007 wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:Just 11 million deportations, taking an axe to the tax code, and a bit of brick laying to go.
Enter the country legally or get the fuck out. Reward hard/smart working people, the horror. Create jobs, ho noes, FDR will be turning in his grave (he won't.)
Having fun riding your hobby horse? Brian's short list of issues is a reply to Laklak's boast about Trump's "accomplished" campaign promises. He is implying that Trump might have some difficulties with them. But do ride on in a random direction.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: The Reign of Trump

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:45 am

Tero wrote:What jobs? The coal mines again? There are no factories coming back.
Exactly.

The sheer naivety of Dave is spectacular. Conservatives are the ones responsible for shipping job offshore, as it's a model of economic efficiency. To think that the republican rich, including Donald Trump, will willingly sacrifice their profits to make stuff in America which costs 20 times or more as much as in the third world is bordering on delusional. Perhaps by some miracle Donald Trump actually believes the bullshit he peddles, he's still got to fight the republican establishment to implement it. It's just not going to happen until you have a proper revolution against neoliberalism. And that means voting for the non-conservatives allies to the cause, like Bernie Sanders.
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
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"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

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Re: The Reign of Trump

Post by DaveDodo007 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:53 am

pErvin wrote:
DaveDodo007 wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:
DaveDodo007 wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:Your attempt at irony is self-defeating. Haven't you noticed that yet?
OH poor stupid me, please enlighten me were I'm wrong, I'll wait.
Have stab at a cogent point and I'll give it a go.
Been there, done that and I have the T shirt. Your whole ideology is redistribution of other people's wealth
Protectionism is redistribution of other people's wealth WRIT LARGE! Colonialism raped the third world, and then slapped protectionisms up to stop the third world at least trying to compete on a somewhat even footing. You really are fucking clueless, aren't you?
Cry me a river as I only care about the Western democracies. Fuck the third world and their dark age religions and their backward cultures where they oppress women and LGBT minorities. I'm not saying that we haven't been total bastards to them countries in the past (we have.) It's about time we left those countries alone and only trade with them from now on. We have to butt out and stop trying to influence them and let them go about their own business. Isolationist is the new strategy and nationalism is the way forward for the West.
We should be MOST skeptical of ideas we like because we are sufficiently skeptical of ideas that we don't like. Penn Jillette.

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Re: The Reign of Trump

Post by DaveDodo007 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:56 am

Hermit wrote:
DaveDodo007 wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:Just 11 million deportations, taking an axe to the tax code, and a bit of brick laying to go.
Enter the country legally or get the fuck out. Reward hard/smart working people, the horror. Create jobs, ho noes, FDR will be turning in his grave (he won't.)
Having fun riding your hobby horse? Brian's short list of issues is a reply to Laklak's boast about Trump's "accomplished" campaign promises. He is implying that Trump might have some difficulties with them. But do ride on in a random direction.
He isn't even in office yet, feel free to call him on his policies when he is in office.
We should be MOST skeptical of ideas we like because we are sufficiently skeptical of ideas that we don't like. Penn Jillette.

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Re: The Reign of Trump

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:01 am

DaveDodo007 wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:
DaveDodo007 wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:Your attempt at irony is self-defeating. Haven't you noticed that yet?
OH poor stupid me, please enlighten me were I'm wrong, I'll wait.
Have stab at a cogent point and I'll give it a go.
Been there, done that and I have the T shirt. Your whole ideology is redistribution of other people's wealth whilst patting yourself on the back for how generous you are. Really popular at first until you run out of other people's money. Then the bread lines start, cracking down on protesters. If a country is lucky you get voted out of office if not then re-education camps and gulags start. Marxism rinse and repeat.
LOL. You know next to nothing about my political views other than, of course, that I disagree with you on most things - nor are you interested in finding out what they might be either. Let me be clear: I don't disagree with on most things due to being ideologically opposed to or in favour of this, that, or the other, in fact I'm open to a persuasive argument from any quarter, but mostly because your expressed views are wholly declarative and, frankly, little more than whinging rants. You don't present arguments, you assert something akin to self-evident truths, and you attempt to justify them by tilting at strawmen you build on misplaced assumptions about why people don't take your views seriously. One doesn't have to subscribe to any particular political outlook to see that your political declarations are primarily dogmatic and self-authorising. It's a matter of public record.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: The Reign of Trump

Post by Hermit » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:17 am

DaveDodo007 wrote:
Hermit wrote:
DaveDodo007 wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:Just 11 million deportations, taking an axe to the tax code, and a bit of brick laying to go.
Enter the country legally or get the fuck out. Reward hard/smart working people, the horror. Create jobs, ho noes, FDR will be turning in his grave (he won't.)
Having fun riding your hobby horse? Brian's short list of issues is a reply to Laklak's boast about Trump's "accomplished" campaign promises. He is implying that Trump might have some difficulties with them. But do ride on in a random direction.
He isn't even in office yet, feel free to call him on his policies when he is in office.
How's your reading comprehension coping with your alcoholic haze? Not very well, it seems. Laklak, if you recall, boasted "Dude hasn't been inaugurated yet and he's already accomplished half his campaign promises." Brian hinted that there'll be some problems "accomplishing" others. I predict the problems will not go away with the inauguration.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: The Reign of Trump

Post by DaveDodo007 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:23 am

pErvin wrote:
Tero wrote:What jobs? The coal mines again? There are no factories coming back.
Exactly.

The sheer naivety of Dave is spectacular. Conservatives are the ones responsible for shipping job offshore, as it's a model of economic efficiency. To think that the republican rich, including Donald Trump, will willingly sacrifice their profits to make stuff in America which costs 20 times or more as much as in the third world is bordering on delusional. Perhaps by some miracle Donald Trump actually believes the bullshit he peddles, he's still got to fight the republican establishment to implement it. It's just not going to happen until you have a proper revolution against neoliberalism. And that means voting for the non-conservatives allies to the cause, like Bernie Sanders.
As if this hasn't been noticed by the new conservatives. The cuckservatives are an issue and need to be purged from the party. Fuck the old school republicans and fuck the evangelicals. We adopted Trump as he probably didn't know we existed in the first place and we carried him to the Whitehouse. We are a movement and unlike the BernieBros we won. Watch us now sweep through the Western world as we are unstumpable and the elitist, globalist, corporalist as well as the bankers are going to be BTFO. Nationalism is back and it will be glorious.
We should be MOST skeptical of ideas we like because we are sufficiently skeptical of ideas that we don't like. Penn Jillette.

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Re: The Reign of Trump

Post by JimC » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:34 am

DaveDodo007 wrote:

...Nationalism is back and it will be glorious...
Would sir like a nice set of gas ovens to go with that?
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
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Re: The Reign of Trump

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:01 am

DaveDodo007 wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:Just 11 million deportations, taking an axe to the tax code, and a bit of brick laying to go.
Enter the country legally or get the fuck out. Reward hard/smart working people, the horror. Create jobs, ho noes, FDR will be turning in his grave (he won't.)
Trump promised that 11 million people will be swiftly deported. Think about that for a moment. 11 million people. Aside from the improbable logistics of such an operation, how many of those 11 million have children who are American citizens? If even half of them have at least one child that's over 5 million children left without at least one parent. How many children might be left with no parents? If even half of those those children have both their parents deported that's 2.5 million homeless children without parents or a means of support. Is the state going to take them in, or are they supposed to make their own way in the world, somehow? If even half of those kids are taken into a home, either by a relative, or fostered, or placed in some sort of care, that's still 1.25 million children left over. How many have to starve to death, or die of exposure, or end up in detention or being exploited and abused before this becomes a problem, let alone a national disgrace? And I'm being generous with my assumptions here.

As I said, this is aside from the improbable logistics of such an operation which would involve, hiring a huge number of officials and training them, finding buildings, setting up IT and communication systems, managing all that, developing systems for identifying and locating targets, organising transport, drawing up rotas, setting quotas, sending out the snatch squads, massively ramping up the court system, which needs expensive judges and lawyers, court officials, admin support, buildings to put them in, canteens, energy, staff accommodation, secure containment facilities, toilets, bog rolls, guards, uniforms, guns, ammo, shackles. The list goes on and on... Would there be an appeals procedure for those snatched by mistake? Would people be able to apply for citizenship or sponsorship under certain circumstances? Not to mention the economic impact of taking 11 million working people out of the economy, because undocumented immigrants don't get any handouts and most of them are workers, not criminals, or even criminally minded, well not yet anyway, and they buy stuff, and rent places. What would the state do to those who tried to hide or shelter their friends, their colleagues, their employees, their children's nannies? Would that be a criminal matter, and if so, what do you do with all those people? Build even more prisons, impose fines, disqualify voting rights or deport them as well?

And if all that came to pass, what would America have become? Draw your own conclusions.

Yeah, it's easy to say "fuck 'em" isn't it? After all, it's not you is it - it's somebody else - the nominal other, the spic, the wop, or as Trump's rhetoric had it, it's only rapists, criminals, and drug dealer. Saying "Fuck 'em, it's their own fault for being illegal aliens" is easy. Just demean and dehumanise the other and it absolves one of any need to actually think about them as people or the consequences of the action - it makes the actions of the state seem so clear cut, so straight-forward, so simple. Too simple.
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.

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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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