Florida Pulse gay club attacked in Orlando

[Exi5tentialist]

You think these two things have equivalence? In a "West versus Islam" sort of way?

The West exists in the same way Islam does.

The C of E, which forbids gay marriage, is a homophobic religion.

The C of E is a homophobic religion, you say? I agree, but when people said that Islam is a homophobic religion, you called such statements unjustifiable Islamophobia. You went even further, saying that Islam as a religion does not exist an the grounds that

This homophobia comes from the here and now, and only in the here and now will it be tackled. Only when people realise that conscious acts cannot arise from unconscious books will we have the wisdom to defeat these murderers.

So, how come you now speak of the C of E not only as a religion, but as a homophobic one to boot? Is the Bible not even more ancient than the Qur'an, and therefore even less relevant to the here and now?

Ah now let me answer that.

The C of E, which forbids gay marriage, is a homophobic religion. The Metropolitan Community Church, which was set up specifically to allow gay marriage, isn't a homophobic religion. Is the overarching religion of Christianity therefore a homophobic one? Clearly you can't say that. The Islam of Muslim LGBT people is similarly not homophobic. I do not think the victims of the Orlando killings are honoured by turning their tragedy into a series of islamophobic generalizations.

You'll notice my words are the same as in the post you quoted. This means that what I originally said answers every one of the points you put. This in turn means that either you have not understood what I said, or for some reason you have deliberately distorted it. I'm going with the latter explanation.

God give me strength.

[Exi5tentialist]

HA! Joke's on you! I'm bald(ish)! Take that!

I was being ironic.

I was being self-deprecating through sarcasm. Jeez, can't even have a light moment with you without you being defensive.

Ah, but even your light moments are barbed.

[Scot Dutchy]

Xtianity is not a religion.

if it's not, hat is it, and please define religion.

Then again, I am of a mind that Nazism had a strong religious undercurrent in addition to being a political movement... religions being generally hard to separate from politics.

Xtians always claim they are part of the same religion which they are clearly not.

[rainbow]

HA! Joke's on you! I'm bald(ish)! Take that!

I was being ironic.

I was being self-deprecating through sarcasm. Jeez, can't even have a light moment with you without you being defensive.

Ah, but even your light moments are barbed.

[rainbow]

It is funnier in the original Slovenian.

[Hermit]

You think these two things have equivalence? In a "West versus Islam" sort of way?

The West exists in the same way Islam does.

The C of E, which forbids gay marriage, is a homophobic religion.

The C of E is a homophobic religion, you say? I agree, but when people said that Islam is a homophobic religion, you called such statements unjustifiable Islamophobia. You went even further, saying that Islam as a religion does not exist an the grounds that

This homophobia comes from the here and now, and only in the here and now will it be tackled. Only when people realise that conscious acts cannot arise from unconscious books will we have the wisdom to defeat these murderers.

So, how come you now speak of the C of E not only as a religion, but as a homophobic one to boot? Is the Bible not even more ancient than the Qur'an, and therefore even less relevant to the here and now?

Ah now let me answer that.

The C of E, which forbids gay marriage, is a homophobic religion.

And now you've done it again. Note the words I highlighted. Why do you say the C of E is a religion and Islam as a religion does not exist? What happened to your claim that Islam cannot exist as a religion because conscious acts cannot arise from unconscious books? Why would the same claim not apply to the C of E? As I just asked you a few minutes ago, is the Bible not an even more ancient unconscious book than the Qur'an?

[Exi5tentialist]

You think these two things have equivalence? In a "West versus Islam" sort of way?

The West exists in the same way Islam does.

The C of E, which forbids gay marriage, is a homophobic religion.

The C of E is a homophobic religion, you say? I agree, but when people said that Islam is a homophobic religion, you called such statements unjustifiable Islamophobia. You went even further, saying that Islam as a religion does not exist an the grounds that

This homophobia comes from the here and now, and only in the here and now will it be tackled. Only when people realise that conscious acts cannot arise from unconscious books will we have the wisdom to defeat these murderers.

So, how come you now speak of the C of E not only as a religion, but as a homophobic one to boot? Is the Bible not even more ancient than the Qur'an, and therefore even less relevant to the here and now?

Ah now let me answer that.

The C of E, which forbids gay marriage, is a homophobic religion.

And now you've done it again. Note the words I highlighted. Why do you say the C of E is a religion and Islam as a religion does not exist? What happened to your claim that Islam cannot exist as a religion because conscious acts cannot arise from unconscious books? Why would the same claim not apply to the C of E? As I just asked you a few minutes ago, is the Bible not an even more ancient unconscious book than the Qur'an?

Where have I said that Islam is not a religion?

[Svartalf]

Xtianity is not a religion.

if it's not, hat is it, and please define religion.

Then again, I am of a mind that Nazism had a strong religious undercurrent in addition to being a political movement... religions being generally hard to separate from politics.

Xtians always claim they are part of the same religion which they are clearly not.

if they all agree to that, then it's obvious they are, despite their fractious division into conflicting factions

[Scot Dutchy]

Xtianity is not a religion.

if it's not, hat is it, and please define religion.

Then again, I am of a mind that Nazism had a strong religious undercurrent in addition to being a political movement... religions being generally hard to separate from politics.

Xtians always claim they are part of the same religion which they are clearly not.

if they all agree to that, then it's obvious they are, despite their fractious division into conflicting factions

Of course they dont agree.

[pErvinalia]

Some religions do, some don't. LGBT Muslims need support, not islamophobic harassment.

So you can say "some religions do", and that's acceptable, but when we say it, you start bleating "islamaphobia!!1!". I'm truly surprised you can muster the thinking power to get through an ordinary day. Do you have a carer?

The C of E, which forbids gay marriage, is a homophobic religion. The Metropolitan Community Church, which was set up specifically to allow gay marriage, isn't a homophobic religion. Is the overarching religion of Christianity therefore a homophobic one? Clearly you can't say that. The Islam of Muslim LGBT people is similarly not homophobic. I do not think the victims of the Orlando killings are honoured by turning their tragedy into a series of islamophobic generalizations.

I never said that all religions are homophobic.

I never said you said I said all religions are homophobic.

I don't think I can keep this up much longer. Some of us have jobs to go to.

Lucky your job is concern trolling the internet..

In any case: So you can say "some religions do", and that's acceptable, but when we say it, you start bleating "islamaphobia!!1!".

[Exi5tentialist]

Lucky your job is concern trolling the internet..

In any case: So you can say "some religions do", and that's acceptable, but when we say it, you start bleating "islamaphobia!!1!".

It depends, not on whether you say it or I say it, but on whether the particular category being discussed has homopobic practices. To summarise:-

- The Church of England is homophobic, because it has adopted homophobic policies, and because it is an organisation, those homophobic policies apply throughout the organisation. There may be many people within the organisation who oppose those homophobic policies, but they cannot alter the fact that the organisation itself is homophobic in practice and policy.

- The Roman Catholic Church is homophobic, because it has adopted homophobic policies and it acts as an organisation with a single person who expresses homophobic ideas at the top of the organisation.

- The Metropolitan Community Church is explicitly not homophobic, they have equal marriage and do not discriminate.

- Because the Metropolitan Community Church is a Christian Church, it is unfair to describe Christianity as homophobic. As a religion, Christianity is too diverse to make that generalization.

- Islam is the same as Christianity in that respect

- I have tended to use the terms Church and religion interchageably, but my meaning is the same. In my view, religions are constructed by people. Dead people have no power to construct them.

- To mischaracterise a religion is to project as stereotype or a prejudice against it. In the case of Islam, this is islamophobic.

- The problem at Orlando was a murderous level of prejudice. I oppose perpetuating this problem by transferring the prejudice from gay people to islam. I do not believe in making a bad situation worse.

[cronus]

Islam is different from Christianity because Islamic countries actively execute gays quite regularly. So the homophobic culture is more entrenched, normalised and deadly across a swathe of countries making it appear more acceptable to murder gays...

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/orlando- ... -apologia/

Orlando massacre: The progressive left and Islamist apologia

(continued)

[Svartalf]

Is the "metropolitan community" "church" representative of christianity at large? they could be the flying fish of the christian ichtionomy.

[Exi5tentialist]

Islam is different from Christianity because Islamic countries actively execute gays quite regularly. So the homophobic culture is more entrenched, normalised and deadly across a swathe of countries making it appear more acceptable to murder gays...

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/orlando- ... -apologia/

Orlando massacre: The progressive left and Islamist apologia

(continued)

I do not think that islam is defined by "islamic countries". What you call islamic countries are often just countries where a particularly oppressive ruling class has taken power and is using its own invention of islam to enact oppressive policies, simply to maintain lits rule.

Any view that takes a sample, however large, and generalizes that to the whole is inaccurate.

[Exi5tentialist]

Is the "metropolitan community" "church" representative of christianity at large? they could be the flying fish of the christian ichtionomy.

It has thousands of people in it.

This is not to mention the thousands of christians who do not attach themselves to any church.