Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors
- pErvinalia
- On the good stuff
- Posts: 60777
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
- About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
- Location: dystopia
- Contact:
Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors
Because Seth says so. That's all you need to know.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
- mistermack
- Posts: 15093
- Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
- About me: Never rong.
- Contact:
Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors
I don't think it was immoral for the US to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki in the last war.Brian Peacock wrote:I wonder why the defensive use of nuclear weapons is immoral while the defensive use of combat aircraft, artillery, tanks, ground-forces, or even hand guns isn't (other than just because Seth says so)?
What's immoral is to pretend it didn't happen, and try to pretend that it's other countries that can't be trusted with Nukes.
The morality of war can never be clear. But the Japan nukes were easy to justify, given the behaviour of Japan before and during the war, and their sworn determination to fight to the last man.
with modern warfare, smaller forces like Isis and the Taliban will always hide their forces among civilians. It's their only defence against modern weapons like warplanes and missiles.
So who's fault is it, when civilians get killed? The people who dropped the bombs, or the people who hid their armies among innocents?
There's no answer to that. Neither side has any other option, other than surrender.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.
Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors
It has to do with the nature of weapon used and the intent in deploying them. Atomic bombs, like chemical and biological weapons are "weapons of mass destruction" precisely because they cannot be deployed selectively to target legitimate military targets, whereas more directed weapons can be, and according to the international laws of war are only supposed to be directed at legitimate military targets. Collateral damage to non-combatants is inevitable in any war, but the distinction is that with directed weapons the collateral damage is minimized and the intent of their deployment is to damage military targets, not terrorize and kill mass numbers of non-combatants.Brian Peacock wrote:I wonder why the defensive use of nuclear weapons is immoral while the defensive use of combat aircraft, artillery, tanks, ground-forces, or even hand guns isn't (other than just because Seth says so)?
Under that guideline, the use of mustard gas in WWI, Hitler's blitz campaign on London and the fire bombings of Dresden and Tokyo as well as the nuke deployments were immoral acts because they were intended to target civilians specifically in order to demoralize them.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors
rEvolutionist wrote:Civilian casualties under the drone program are 10x what they are with conventional bombs.
I challenge this factoid. Drone strikes are quite pin-point and precise, which is the whole point of using them. Cite your evidence.
I give a fuck about everyone except those who tyrannize and enslave others. About them I give something less than a flying fuck because they are evil and therefore must be destroyed completely, just as we use antibiotics to destroy infections, for the overall health of the human species.You don't give a fuck about anyone but Americans.
A: You lie.
And you've repeatedly called for nukes to be used in the middle east.
B: On the occasions I have suggested it, I did so sarcastically as an over-the-top response to tyrantophiles like you who argue in support of tyranny and despotism.
You do it because I am one of the Internet's foremost interlocutors who's skill at eliciting comment and participation in critical discussions is unparalleled in the history of mankind and you simply cannot stop yourself. Well, except maybe Socrates.I don't even know why I am doing this for the 4 billionth time.
Pot, kettle, black times infinity.You simply don't understand logic and reasoning, and have no intention of having honest debate.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors
rEvolutionist wrote:Yet you advocate murdering millions of innocent civilians in Syria just because ISIS is based there.
Seth wrote:You're a liar. I have never advocated doing that. You have however repeatedly erected this false accusation of a strawman.
Did you see a single reference to the intentional targeting of non-military targets or non-combatants?Yes it does, but the problem is that no national leader since Alexander the Great has known how to go to war. When you go to war you unleash the dogs of war and tell them to destroy the enemy utterly, and as quickly and efficiently as possible with a minimum of casualties to themselves and you give them any weapon or tool they need to do so. You destroy the enemy's troops, infrastructure, supply lines, dams, power stations, sewer plants, water plants and anything else the enemy can use. You bring them to their knees so they surrender and then you tell them they'd better behave or you'll bomb them right back into the stone age again and again and again, as many times as it takes, without mercy or quarter.
Nope.
As for "any weapon or tool" that of course excludes WMDs precisely because they cannot be specifically targeted at valid military targets and combatants.
Nice try though, but FAIL!
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors
That's unfortunate but is the fault of the terrorists who use non-combatants as human shields. The lesson is that if you don't want to be collateral damage in a targeted drone strike, don't hang out with terrorists. Instead, if you simply shoot them, cut their heads off and ship them to us we won't have to use drone strikes at all.rEvolutionist wrote:This isn't the report, but is relevant.
41 men targeted but 1,147 people killed: US drone strikes – the facts on the ground
Besides, it doesn't say how many of those other people killed actually are terrorists or supporters and conspirators of terrorists who needed to be just as dead as the targeted individual. If one man is targeted and 13 other terrorists in the same convoy are killed as well that's just bonus points.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors
Okay, that's just plain ignorance of how drones are used.rEvolutionist wrote:Western airforces don't carpet bomb any more, as far as I am aware. The difference is in the pilot and associated aircraft being able to better assess whether a strike should go ahead. Maybe also a case of different missile technologies too.
Drones are MUCH better at precision strikes than piloted jet aircraft precisely because they are low-speed aircraft that can loiter in the target's vicinity unnoticed for a long time. They are equipped with incredibly effective sensor suites including gyro-stabilized visible light and thermal camera systems that can zoom in on an individual building, vehicle and even on an INDIVIDUAL and identify him and then automatically track movement of anyone tagged by the pilots who fly the drones (there's two of them, one flys the drone and the other one operates the sensor suite) and can track an individual or vehicle for many miles to a meet point while waiting for other targets to assemble before shoving a Hellfire guided missile right up the target's ass with incredible precision. Moreover, the drone pilots don't operate in an oversight vacuum fraught with bureaucratic delays over authorizations to fire or revocations of such authorizations that must be transmitted through several layers of military bureaucracy to get to a jet pilot. Instead, the drone operators are supervised by command personnel right at the operating point, and these commanders can approve or override a shoot decision in an instant.
Compared to a jet and pilot flying 400 knots on a deployment pass who at best has a radar or IR lock on a designated target who has mere second in which to deploy the weapon effectively and very little ability to assess anything at all because he does not have, nor could he operate and fly at the same time, the sophisticated sensor suite that makes drones so incredibly effective in both destroying the desired target and avoiding non-combatant casualties where it is possible to do so.
You need to do more research before you spout off about things you clearly know nothing about.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors
Rubbish. The deployment of the atomic bomb was, arguably, immoral. The 'invention' was simply a discovery of the natural laws of the universe in which we inhabit. Is it your argument that there is a moral impetus to remain ignorant or are you just being grandiose?Seth wrote:No, I said invention and development of the atomic bomb was immoral. Somebody else improperly attempted to expand that to all military weapons. You're erecting strawman arguments, as usual.rEvolutionist wrote:What the fuck are you talking about gun control for?? You were claiming science military and government immoral, yet your moral compass is demonstrably 180 degrees arse about.

Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors
No, it was the discovery of natural laws followed by a deliberate intent to use those natural laws to create a weapon of mass destruction for the express purpose of killing massive numbers of non-combatants in a military action. Understanding the nature of fission and knowing that it could be used to develop a bomb is different from taking that knowledge and using it to build a bomb. A rational and ethical scientist, upon learning the nature of fission and fusion and upon realizing the evil use to which such natural phenomena could be put would refuse to participate or support any attempt to do so, and it is within the power of the non-scientist larger community to forbid any scientist from pursuing such technology as a matter of societal self-defense.Śiva wrote:Rubbish. The deployment of the atomic bomb was, arguably, immoral. The 'invention' was simply a discovery of the natural laws of the universe in which we inhabit. Is it your argument that there is a moral impetus to remain ignorant or are you just being grandiose?Seth wrote:No, I said invention and development of the atomic bomb was immoral. Somebody else improperly attempted to expand that to all military weapons. You're erecting strawman arguments, as usual.rEvolutionist wrote:What the fuck are you talking about gun control for?? You were claiming science military and government immoral, yet your moral compass is demonstrably 180 degrees arse about.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
- Hermit
- Posts: 25806
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
- About me: Cantankerous grump
- Location: Ignore lithpt
- Contact:
Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors
The Germans wanted total war.
They got it.
The Japanese were warned several times that unless they surrender, Japan will experience utter and total destruction. They killed the ultimatums with silence. US bombers dropped millions of leaflets announcing the imminent destruction of named cities. They were ignored.
Here is one of the warnings. Truman made that speech in July 1945.
After the bomb was dropped on Hiroshima Truman announced there was more of the same to come. The Japanese warred on regardless.
They got it.
The Japanese were warned several times that unless they surrender, Japan will experience utter and total destruction. They killed the ultimatums with silence. US bombers dropped millions of leaflets announcing the imminent destruction of named cities. They were ignored.
Here is one of the warnings. Truman made that speech in July 1945.
After the bomb was dropped on Hiroshima Truman announced there was more of the same to come. The Japanese warred on regardless.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould
Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors
How does giving warning of intent to commit a crime against humanity make it no longer a crime against humanity? How does it shift the burden of responsibility to address the lesser claim implicit in your post for that matter?
- Hermit
- Posts: 25806
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
- About me: Cantankerous grump
- Location: Ignore lithpt
- Contact:
Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors
It doesn't.Śiva wrote:How does giving warning of intent to commit a crime against humanity make it no longer a crime against humanity?
As one who lacks a belief in the existence of free will I avoid the word "responsibility" as much as I can, and whenever I do use it I do so in the context of cause and effect rather than blame and praise, except when the latter is a useful device (or white lie, if you like) for positive reinforcement.Śiva wrote:How does it shift the burden of responsibility to address the lesser claim implicit in your post for that matter?
I suspect you read a whole lot of things into my post that are not there.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould
- Brian Peacock
- Tipping cows since 1946
- Posts: 39983
- Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
- About me: Ablate me:
- Location: Location: Location:
- Contact:
Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors
Tell that to the people of Dresden and Coventry.Seth wrote:It has to do with the nature of weapon used and the intent in deploying them. Atomic bombs, like chemical and biological weapons are "weapons of mass destruction" precisely because they cannot be deployed selectively to target legitimate military targets, whereas more directed weapons can be, and according to the international laws of war are only supposed to be directed at legitimate military targets. Collateral damage to non-combatants is inevitable in any war, but the distinction is that with directed weapons the collateral damage is minimized and the intent of their deployment is to damage military targets, not terrorize and kill mass numbers of non-combatants.Brian Peacock wrote:I wonder why the defensive use of nuclear weapons is immoral while the defensive use of combat aircraft, artillery, tanks, ground-forces, or even hand guns isn't (other than just because Seth says so)?
Under that guideline, the use of mustard gas in WWI, Hitler's blitz campaign on London and the fire bombings of Dresden and Tokyo as well as the nuke deployments were immoral acts because they were intended to target civilians specifically in order to demoralize them.
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors
That is exactly my point. Such tactics and weapons are always immoral no matter who applies them or for what ostensible purpose or justification.Brian Peacock wrote:Tell that to the people of Dresden and Coventry.Seth wrote:It has to do with the nature of weapon used and the intent in deploying them. Atomic bombs, like chemical and biological weapons are "weapons of mass destruction" precisely because they cannot be deployed selectively to target legitimate military targets, whereas more directed weapons can be, and according to the international laws of war are only supposed to be directed at legitimate military targets. Collateral damage to non-combatants is inevitable in any war, but the distinction is that with directed weapons the collateral damage is minimized and the intent of their deployment is to damage military targets, not terrorize and kill mass numbers of non-combatants.Brian Peacock wrote:I wonder why the defensive use of nuclear weapons is immoral while the defensive use of combat aircraft, artillery, tanks, ground-forces, or even hand guns isn't (other than just because Seth says so)?
Under that guideline, the use of mustard gas in WWI, Hitler's blitz campaign on London and the fire bombings of Dresden and Tokyo as well as the nuke deployments were immoral acts because they were intended to target civilians specifically in order to demoralize them.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
- pErvinalia
- On the good stuff
- Posts: 60777
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
- About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
- Location: dystopia
- Contact:
Re: Science Undecided on Room Temperature Superconductors
Yep, in the two links above that. And in that reference you suggest bombing a country back to the stone age. How is that NOT targetting non-military targets??Seth wrote:rEvolutionist wrote:Yet you advocate murdering millions of innocent civilians in Syria just because ISIS is based there.Seth wrote:You're a liar. I have never advocated doing that. You have however repeatedly erected this false accusation of a strawman.Did you see a single reference to the intentional targeting of non-military targets or non-combatants?Yes it does, but the problem is that no national leader since Alexander the Great has known how to go to war. When you go to war you unleash the dogs of war and tell them to destroy the enemy utterly, and as quickly and efficiently as possible with a minimum of casualties to themselves and you give them any weapon or tool they need to do so. You destroy the enemy's troops, infrastructure, supply lines, dams, power stations, sewer plants, water plants and anything else the enemy can use. You bring them to their knees so they surrender and then you tell them they'd better behave or you'll bomb them right back into the stone age again and again and again, as many times as it takes, without mercy or quarter.
Nope.
Yet again I wonder why I am doing this. You are a dishonest cunt of the highest order.
As for "any weapon or tool" that of course excludes WMDs precisely because they cannot be specifically targeted at valid military targets and combatants.
Nice try though, but FAIL!

This conversation is going on ignore. You're a major dishonest shit.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests