Terror attack Knifeman may have wanted to behead Victim

[cronus]

There are no moderates

Citation needed.

It'll cost you a bus fare to Saudi Arabia and the pints on me.

[Hermit]

There are no moderates

Citation needed.

It'll cost you a bus fare to Saudi Arabia and the pints on me.

Undoubtedly there are Muslim extremists in Saudi Arabia, and all over the world for that matter. I need not travel anywhere to know this. What I do ask for is evidence in support of your assertion that there are no moderate Muslims.

[cronus]

There are no moderates

Citation needed.

It'll cost you a bus fare to Saudi Arabia and the pints on me.

Undoubtedly there are Muslim extremists in Saudi Arabia, and all over the world for that matter. I need not travel anywhere to know this. What I do ask for is evidence in support of your assertion that there are no moderate Muslims.

OK then, try joining a local mosque and then tell them you are leaving?

[Hermit]

There are no moderates

Citation needed.

It'll cost you a bus fare to Saudi Arabia and the pints on me.

Undoubtedly there are Muslim extremists in Saudi Arabia, and all over the world for that matter. I need not travel anywhere to know this. What I do ask for is evidence in support of your assertion that there are no moderate Muslims.

OK then, try joining a local mosque and then tell them you are leaving?

I personally knew a Muslim who is an Imam at Sydney's largest mosque. He regretted the exodus of Muslim believers, but had no problem with the people who became apostates. Some of them actually kept visiting his home for dinner and discussed religious issues at length. In English when I or other visitors who did not speak Arabic were there as well. More courteous debates you could not possibly imagine. I really doubt the Imam or any other of the Muslim believers harboured secret plans to kill the apostates.

Besides, I do not doubt that extremists would want to kill them, but again you have not provided any evidence whatsoever that all Muslims would. You keep on making the same mistake again and again, which is to correctly observe that some Muslims are in fact extremists, then falsely conclude that all Muslims are extremists

[cronus]

Most Nazis where on the fringe. Most never killed any Jews or nothing. That sort of Nazi that only herded his sheep and drank his German beer is still not gonna make a Nazi moderate. And on account of the stuff he's propaganda'd with, under the right circumstances he'd do nasty damage with his pitchfork.

[Hermit]

Most Nazis where on the fringe. Most never killed any Jews or nothing. That sort of Nazi that only herded his sheep and drank his German beer is still not gonna make a Nazi moderate. And on account of the stuff he's propaganda'd with, under the right circumstances he'd do nasty damage with his pitchfork.

Anyone who is only interested in herding sheep and drinking beer is not an extremist of any sort. Furthermore, living as a German citizen in the Third Reich does not even make you a Nazi, moderate, or otherwise. I have a very personal connection with this. Both my father and his father as well as my uncles were issued with pitchforks and told to do nasty damage to uniformed soldiers on the opposing side. The alternative was to finish up in one of those concentration camps where most inmates were systematically starved to death or killed by other means.

The propaganda did nothing to make them do that. The threats to their lives did.

And you have failed to substantiate your claim that there are no moderates among Muslims yet again.

[cronus]

Most Nazis where on the fringe. Most never killed any Jews or nothing. That sort of Nazi that only herded his sheep and drank his German beer is still not gonna make a Nazi moderate. And on account of the stuff he's propaganda'd with, under the right circumstances he'd do nasty damage with his pitchfork.

Anyone who is only interested in herding sheep and drinking beer is not an extremist of any sort. Furthermore, living as a German citizen in the Third Reich does not even make you a Nazi, moderate, or otherwise. I have a very personal connection with this. Both my father and his father as well as my uncles were issued with pitchforks and told to do nasty damage to uniformed soldiers on the opposing side. The alternative was to finish up in one of those concentration camps where most inmates were systematically starved to death or killed by other means.

The propaganda did nothing to make them do that. The threats to their lives did.

And you have failed to substantiate your claim that there are no moderates among Muslims yet again.

Given the death sentence for apostasy in Islam, and most Islamic countries are not protected by Western legal systems unlike Australia....you are undermining your own argument quicker than quick.

[Hermit]

Given the death sentence for apostasy in Islam, and most Islamic countries are not protected by Western legal systems unlike Australia....you are undermining your own argument quicker than quick.

What exactly is the connection between the edicts of the Qur'an and the claim that there are no moderate Muslims? Do you think that all Muslims agree with the one that commands the exeecution of apostates? If so, you may as well assume with equal justification, that is to say none at all, that all Christians agree with Jesus' command: "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." [Luke 19:27] and that therefore there are no moderates among Christians either.

[JimC]

Brian Peacock wrote:

...moderator muslims...

[JimC]

Given the death sentence for apostasy in Islam, and most Islamic countries are not protected by Western legal systems unlike Australia....you are undermining your own argument quicker than quick.

What exactly is the connection between the edicts of the Qur'an and the claim that there are no moderate Muslims? Do you think that all Muslims agree with the one that commands the exeecution of apostates? If so, you may as well assume that there are no moderate Christians either, for the Bible quotes Jesus as commanding: "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." [Luke 19:27]

Agreed in theory, and certainly there are, of course, many moderate muslims, whatever Scumple and Seth claim...

However, it remains true that there are currently a lot more muslims that believe in the death sentence for apostasy, and would enact it, than there are christians who would be happy to follow your apt biblical quote...

[cronus]

Given the death sentence for apostasy in Islam, and most Islamic countries are not protected by Western legal systems unlike Australia....you are undermining your own argument quicker than quick.

What exactly is the connection between the edicts of the Qur'an and the claim that there are no moderate Muslims? Do you think that all Muslims agree with the one that commands the exeecution of apostates? If so, you may as well assume that there are no moderate Christians either, for the Bible quotes Jesus as commanding: "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." [Luke 19:27]

Yes, Christianity is more dormant at present but can be dangerous under the right cultural and socio-economic conditions. Only have to consider Blair/Bush. Them two showing it is not about numbers or extremism/moderation but whether social networks are efficient at stopping nob-heads from getting near red buttons etc....

[Hermit]

Agreed in theory, and certainly there are, of course, many moderate muslims, whatever Scumple and Seth claim...

However, it remains true that there are currently a lot more muslims that believe in the death sentence for apostasy, and would enact it, than there are christians who would be happy to follow your apt biblical quote...

Quite so. Is this in any way justification to treat all Muslims, the vast majority of whom are not extremists as if they were, you know, like, just in case?

[cronus]

Agreed in theory, and certainly there are, of course, many moderate muslims, whatever Scumple and Seth claim...

However, it remains true that there are currently a lot more muslims that believe in the death sentence for apostasy, and would enact it, than there are christians who would be happy to follow your apt biblical quote...

Quite so. Is this in any way justification to treat all Muslims, the vast majority of whom are not extremists as if they were, you know, like, just in case?

No, because they are not gonna leave since they know what would happen....a third are atheist/secular though some study said a few years ago.

[Hermit]

Given the death sentence for apostasy in Islam, and most Islamic countries are not protected by Western legal systems unlike Australia....you are undermining your own argument quicker than quick.

What exactly is the connection between the edicts of the Qur'an and the claim that there are no moderate Muslims? Do you think that all Muslims agree with the one that commands the exeecution of apostates? If so, you may as well assume that there are no moderate Christians either, for the Bible quotes Jesus as commanding: "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." [Luke 19:27]

Yes, Christianity is more dormant at present but can be dangerous under the right cultural and socio-economic conditions.

Quite so. Does that mean that there are no moderate Muslims? Or does it mean that we ought to treat all Muslims as if they were?

[JimC]

Agreed in theory, and certainly there are, of course, many moderate muslims, whatever Scumple and Seth claim...

However, it remains true that there are currently a lot more muslims that believe in the death sentence for apostasy, and would enact it, than there are christians who would be happy to follow your apt biblical quote...

Quite so. Is this in any way justification to treat all Muslims, the vast majority of whom are not extremists as if they were, you know, like, just in case?

Clearly not, but it is justification for increased surveillance, and real penalties for those who can be shown clearly have endorsed or supported jihad...