What if God is real but quiet to max out your free choices?

[Brian Peacock]

Even if it exists, Thrallogne is evil and demands your worship period.

[Svartalf]

damands will only be heard if presented in person.

[Rum]

To paraphrase Christopher Hitchens, even if a god exists your work has only just begun.

[Seth]

I have never claimed either to possess, or be able to offer such a proof. That was not the point of my examples. I was simply highlighting the futility of playing "what if" when it comes to putative, supernatural entities.

You mean like the futility of "what if God doesn't exist?" That futility? Yeah, I got it, your arguments against the existence of God are entirely futile because you have zero credible, critically robust scientific evidence that God does not exist, so you're being just exactly as irrational as those you claim are being irrational in claiming God does exist.

Feet of clay, dude, feet of clay.

Possibly. But even in that case, I still don't have it. Neither does anyone else as far as I can ascertain. Although several claim to have such evidence but are strangely reticent in sharing it. Evidence that is not presented for scrutiny becomes de facto hearsay

Maybe you don't have it because you not only refuse to look for (or even at) it but instead you dismiss every bit of evidence that does exists that does not fit your pre-determined "scientific" world-view. As the saying goes "seek and ye shall find."

By the way, didja read about the autistic 5 year old who seems to be able to read other people's minds...according to scientists who have tested him?

Picking one from the lucky-dip of religious multiplicity might sound like sense to some. Not to me, thanks. I have no idea if god exists and know nothing about its nature if it does - the sensible course is to act as if he doesn't exist until things are decided either way.

And you get to decide that...for yourself. The problem is that most Atheists aren't satisfied to believe what they believe and let other people believe what they believe, they insist on disparaging, maligning, attacking and being in general intolerant, bigoted fuckwits when it comes to respecting other people's beliefs.

Which cut? The catholic cut? The JW's cut? The mormon cut? The Norse cut? The muslim cut? The yazidi cut? The hindu cut? The final cut (not Pink Floyd's finest hour)? Given a huge range of mutually exclusive deities to pick from, and their varied criteria for whatever they offer as a reward to their faithful, I STILL think the simplest course is not to choose any unless one has something more definite to go on. If religion teaches us anything, it's that nothing pisses of a god more than your worshipping a different one.

Dunno. And therein lies the crux of the issue. You'll never know which is the "true" religion if you aren't open-minded enough to pursue the truth. If instead you just derogate and insult everyone else who has at least examined some evidence, however weak you might consider it to be, and made their own conclusions about the truth then all you are doing is being the dog in the manger, which isn't a hallmark of a superior intellect.

[Seth]

Imagine he set time to only go forwards. Now time 'his time' is really big....and your time is frankly nothing at all in comparison. Not saying he's a sadist, most likely a nihilist with a vague interest in morality like me, and so you think you'll live forever and God does. He is a creative soul and he made you out of whimsy and set you going....in a world of moral conundrums....everything, science especially, produces relentless moral choices....you spend that flicker, that one moment - your entire life trying to figure them out with no reward - indeed according to the dominant religion judgement and perhaps eternal punishment? his lack of credibility in these various religious texts would serve a crucial purpose in providing evidence of not being around so you can do what you like - and when the bill comes in at the end of life you get exactly what you paid for...and being cultural Christians who celebrate Christmas(regardless of its carbon footprint) that's exactly how you lot are living.

Well put. One of the big mistakes Atheists make is a presumption that God, any god, must be benevolent. If we look at the Old Testament we see that even the people of the time didn't believe that at all. They believed that God was a jealous god who would turn you into a pillar of salt if you disobeyed his commandments and who destroyed whole armies of the enemies of his worshipers.

A jealous and vindictive god is a potent argument for obedience and worship, is it not?

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Fuck off, Seth. You didn't read a word I said and, as usual, you are replying to somebody else that only exists in your head - this ATHEIST person. Again, good day to you, Sir, and fuck off.

[Animavore]

Lol. I don't know what he said, for obvious reasons, but I've been there and can guess.
Cut the fucking dead weight. Please. All of you. The ignore button is right there. Stop being troll victims.

[Seth]

Fuck off, Seth. You didn't read a word I said and, as usual, you are replying to somebody else that only exists in your head - this ATHEIST person. Again, good day to you, Sir, and fuck off.

I read every word. And I responded to every word as I saw fit in order to make a point. Don't blame me because you provide the ammunition to shoot down your arguments.

[Seth]

Lol. I don't know what he said, for obvious reasons, but I've been there and can guess.
Cut the fucking dead weight. Please. All of you. The ignore button is right there. Stop being troll victims.

See, as I've said so many times, when you run out of rational arguments you resort to ad hominim attack.

It's interesting how the threads I participate in are many of the longest and most read threads, isn't it?

[cronus]

Lol. I don't know what he said, for obvious reasons, but I've been there and can guess.
Cut the fucking dead weight. Please. All of you. The ignore button is right there. Stop being troll victims.

See, as I've said so many times, when you run out of rational arguments you resort to ad hominim attack.

It's interesting how the threads I participate in are many of the longest and most read threads, isn't it?

They respect you Seth. Even more than me. I don't know how you do it, you do though.

[Seth]

Lol. I don't know what he said, for obvious reasons, but I've been there and can guess.
Cut the fucking dead weight. Please. All of you. The ignore button is right there. Stop being troll victims.

See, as I've said so many times, when you run out of rational arguments you resort to ad hominim attack.

It's interesting how the threads I participate in are many of the longest and most read threads, isn't it?

They respect you Seth. Even more than me. I don't know how you do it, you do though.

Habit and long experience makes it pretty easy, and it keeps me mentally sharp.

[Animavore]

Don't respond to posts aimed at me which I can't even see. It's bad enough you dimwits are allowing yourself to be troll fodder. Don't be doubly trolled by taking up my charge.

Fuck sake. I think I'm going to be the next here to leave. Not because of that gobshite, but because of everyone else's continued insistence to indulge him. I losing respect for this forum.

[cronus]

Don't respond to posts aimed at me which I can't even see. It's bad enough you dimwits are allowing yourself to be troll fodder. Don't be doubly trolled by taking up my charge.

Fuck sake. I think I'm going to be the next here to leave. Not because of that gobshite, but because of everyone else's continued insistence to indulge him. I losing respect for this forum.

Seth isn't a troll. He uses that legend to confuse the masses.

[Brian Peacock]

I have never claimed either to possess, or be able to offer such a proof. That was not the point of my examples. I was simply highlighting the futility of playing "what if" when it comes to putative, supernatural entities.

You mean like the futility of "what if God doesn't exist?" That futility? Yeah, I got it, your arguments against the existence of God are entirely futile because you have zero credible, critically robust scientific evidence that God does not exist, so you're being just exactly as irrational as those you claim are being irrational in claiming God does exist.

Nah, XC wasn't declaring "God does not exit" but highlighting the futility of playing what-if when it comes to putative, supernatural entities. To dispute this on the grounds that playing what-if is a reasonable game unless or until there are credible, critically robust scientific evidences that God does not exist is itself irrational, erecting as it does fallacious conditions to the game of what-if which presume at the outset that playing what-if when it comes to putative, supernatural entities is the only reasonable, rational game in town. Playing "What if God doesn't exist?" is, for XC and many others, just as futile as playing "What if God does exist?". If you're not disputing this basic point, then what b'jaysus are you on about? If you are disputing this point, then what credible, critically robust scientific evidence can be put forward to assure and/or convince us that "What if God does exist?" is a reasonable, rational game to begin with?

[Hermit]

Don't respond to posts aimed at me which I can't even see. It's bad enough you dimwits are allowing yourself to be troll fodder. Don't be doubly trolled by taking up my charge.

Fuck sake. I think I'm going to be the next here to leave. Not because of that gobshite, but because of everyone else's continued insistence to indulge him. I losing respect for this forum.

Oh, look. A ragequit announcement.

Animavore, I reply to and quote anyone I choose to. You don't actually have to read posts you don't want to, you know? Learn to use the scroll wheel or the 'page down' key. It's not all that difficult, even for an Irishman.

If you prefer to leave in a huff, I won't mind. Promise.