100 homicidal home invasions

[Seth]

http://portland.suntimes.com/national-w ... er-shotgun

Obviously, in the US of A, even dogs have the right to use arms!

To Hermit

The serious interpretation of your graph is simple. It reflects the age distribution of the population. Most crimes are committed by young men, from ages 18 to 30 approximately. The number of young men increased in the 1960's due to the baby boomer generation growing up, and the number of young men fell after 1990 due to the baby boomers getting older. Pretty simple.

The details are :

The baby boomers were those born between 1946 and 1964. Crime rates are higher for young men, meaning maximum criminal behaviour between 18 and 30 years of age.
1946 plus 18 years = 1964, which is when crime began to rise. The end of this period was 1964 plus 30 years = 1994, when the crime rate fell.

Not quite as simple as that, since men a little younger than 18 and a little older than 30 are also more criminal, though not as much as 18 to 30.

So, if you are correct, it still doesn't change the fact of more guns, less crime. What we do NOT see is more guns, more crime. Therefore, the claim that the number of guns in our society is the cause of violent crime is specious and false, as you yourself have admitted in the past.

This being the case under your argument, specious as it is, there is no rational need or reason to ban or restrict gun ownership or possession by law abiding citizens.

[Hermit]

Fact: More guns, less crime.

So what can we conclude from that? Let's have a look at total violent crimes per 100,000 of the US population between 1960 and 2014. Graph based on FBI UCS Annual Crime Reports via DisasterCenter.com.



Assuming more guns, less crime

1. There were over twice as many guns in circulation in 1960 compared to 2014.
2. By 1992 three quarters of all guns that were in circulation in 1960 had disappeared.

Am I doing it right?

No. Where did you get the silly notion that guns "disappear"?

I've got one from 1940 that still shoots just fine, and another circa 1920.

I did not say they did disappear. Just wondering what happened between 1960 and 1992 when total violent crimes in the USA rose from 161 to 758 per 100,000 of its population in therms of "more guns, less crime". Where did your causality disappear to during that period?

[Seth]

Fact: More guns, less crime.

So what can we conclude from that? Let's have a look at total violent crimes per 100,000 of the US population between 1960 and 2014. Graph based on FBI UCS Annual Crime Reports via DisasterCenter.com.



Assuming more guns, less crime

1. There were over twice as many guns in circulation in 1960 compared to 2014.
2. By 1992 three quarters of all guns that were in circulation in 1960 had disappeared.

Am I doing it right?

No. Where did you get the silly notion that guns "disappear"?

I've got one from 1940 that still shoots just fine, and another circa 1920.

I did not say they did disappear. Just wondering what happened between 1960 and 1992 when total violent crimes in the USA rose from 161 to 758 per 100,000 of its population in therms of "more guns, less crime". Where did your causality disappear to during that period?

Because during that period, as a result of laws restricting firearms that stemmed from, in part, the civil rights era and various other sociological factors, crime rates continued to rise. About 1990 citizens in Florida had had enough of drug related crime and they demanded that the state issue CCW permits to law abiding citizens so they could protect themselves. The results were dramatic, with almost immediate violent crime drops of about 8 percent and longer term reductions of 15 percent with NO increases in gun accidents and no dead cops or blood running in the gutters.

As time passed and NONE of the dire consequences predicted by hoplophobes occurred, shall-issue CCW permitting spread to other states, ALL of whom had the same sort of beneficial effects Florida saw. More guns, less crime. And that trend continues in every place where CCW is legal, whereas where CCW is illegal, like Chicago and DC, violent crime is rampant and growing.

[Hermit]

Fact: More guns, less crime.

So what can we conclude from that? Let's have a look at total violent crimes per 100,000 of the US population between 1960 and 2014. Graph based on FBI UCS Annual Crime Reports via DisasterCenter.com.



Assuming more guns, less crime

1. There were over twice as many guns in circulation in 1960 compared to 2014.
2. By 1992 three quarters of all guns that were in circulation in 1960 had disappeared.

Am I doing it right?

No. Where did you get the silly notion that guns "disappear"?

I've got one from 1940 that still shoots just fine, and another circa 1920.

I did not say they did disappear. Just wondering what happened between 1960 and 1992 when total violent crimes in the USA rose from 161 to 758 per 100,000 of its population in therms of "more guns, less crime". Where did your causality disappear to during that period?

Because during that period, as a result of laws restricting firearms that stemmed from, in part, the civil rights era and various other sociological factors, crime rates continued to rise. About 1990 citizens in Florida had had enough of drug related crime and they demanded that the state issue CCW permits to law abiding citizens so they could protect themselves. The results were dramatic, with almost immediate violent crime drops of about 8 percent and longer term reductions of 15 percent with NO increases in gun accidents and no dead cops or blood running in the gutters.

As time passed and NONE of the dire consequences predicted by hoplophobes occurred, shall-issue CCW permitting spread to other states, ALL of whom had the same sort of beneficial effects Florida saw. More guns, less crime. And that trend continues in every place where CCW is legal, whereas where CCW is illegal, like Chicago and DC, violent crime is rampant and growing.

So, can we say that about 1990 there were one quarter of guns per capita in private possession when compared to 1960? Also, that in 1960 there were twice as many as today?

[Tero]

I'm pretty sure the Floridians are getting too old to even lift up the gun in their night stand drawer. Florida is somewhere along the diagonal line left bottom to right top


these are not murders, they are IDIOTS

[Seth]

I did not say they did disappear. Just wondering what happened between 1960 and 1992 when total violent crimes in the USA rose from 161 to 758 per 100,000 of its population in therms of "more guns, less crime". Where did your causality disappear to during that period?

Because during that period, as a result of laws restricting firearms that stemmed from, in part, the civil rights era and various other sociological factors, crime rates continued to rise. About 1990 citizens in Florida had had enough of drug related crime and they demanded that the state issue CCW permits to law abiding citizens so they could protect themselves. The results were dramatic, with almost immediate violent crime drops of about 8 percent and longer term reductions of 15 percent with NO increases in gun accidents and no dead cops or blood running in the gutters.

As time passed and NONE of the dire consequences predicted by hoplophobes occurred, shall-issue CCW permitting spread to other states, ALL of whom had the same sort of beneficial effects Florida saw. More guns, less crime. And that trend continues in every place where CCW is legal, whereas where CCW is illegal, like Chicago and DC, violent crime is rampant and growing.[/quote]So, can we say that about 1990 there were one quarter of guns per capita in private possession when compared to 1960? Also, that in 1960 there were twice as many as today?[/quote]

Don't know. The important change is the ability of law abiding citizens to actually carry a concealed firearm for self defense outside of the home, which previously was severely restricted almost everywhere as a matter of historical record. Open carry quickly fell out of favor east of the Mississippi, and was quickly outlawed in places like NYC as early as 1800.

In the south most gun control laws were passed for the express purpose of keeping blacks disarmed while whites carrying guns were simply ignored by the police. This racism persists in many places including NYC, Chicago, DC and LA, among others.

It may be barely possible for a connected white to get a permit in NYC, but it's factually impossible for a poor black person in the Bronx to ever get one, even though he likely needs it much mor than the rich white guy.

There's no way to quantify any reduction in the number of guns owned or the ownership trends in the period you mention, but what is quantifiable is that since 1990, some 12 million more people are licensed to carry in public than before, and crime continues to decline.

[Seth]

I'm pretty sure the Floridians are getting too old to even lift up the gun in their night stand drawer. Florida is somewhere along the diagonal line left bottom to right top


these are not murders, they are IDIOTS

And we don't need fewer idiots with guns?

[Tero]

The idiots shooting each other would be fine. But they shoot at random, so I'm not safer.

[Blind groper]

https://www.texastribune.org/2015/09/24 ... ffect-cri/

Overall, concealed carry permits have little or no effect on crime rates. That is part of the general principle that a change that is no change is, after all, no change.

Criminals who want to carry guns, carry guns regardless. Many of the concealed carry brigade carried guns before they got their permits. After all, they are gun nutters who WANT to carry guns, so they do.

It is an example of the fact that criminals in states with sensible gun laws simply go to states where gun laws are lax to buy their guns. Those who want guns, have them, regardless of what local laws say.

To control guns properly requires a nation -wide set of laws, and solid policing of those laws.

[Hermit]

There's no way to quantify any reduction in the number of guns owned or the ownership trends in the period you mention

For a while I thought "more guns, less crime" meant that there must have been more than twice the number of privately owned guns per capita in 1960 compared to 2014. Looks like the mantra applies always, except when it doesn't. Presumably, concealed carry permits were more than twice as easy to obtain instead. Thanks for the clarification.

[Seth]

The idiots shooting each other would be fine. But they shoot at random, so I'm not safer.

Sucks to be you I guess. I suggest you hide in your basement to avoid any risks. Tell your mom I said it's okay, and give her your underwear to wash, they are getting smelly with all the crap you are putting out.

[Seth]

https://www.texastribune.org/2015/09/24 ... ffect-cri/

Overall, concealed carry permits have little or no effect on crime rates.

Which claim you are entirely unable to support with any factual evidence.

That is part of the general principle that a change that is no change is, after all, no change.

Criminals who want to carry guns, carry guns regardless.

Of course they do, whether there is a law against it or not. That's why we need our own guns for self defense.

Many of the concealed carry brigade carried guns before they got their permits.

And your critically robust scientific evidence of the truth of this ex-recto assertion is...?? Absent, that's what it is.

After all, they are gun nutters who WANT to carry guns, so they do.

Do they? Your proof of this ass-ertion?

It is an example of the fact that criminals in states with sensible gun laws simply go to states where gun laws are lax to buy their guns. Those who want guns, have them, regardless of what local laws say.

Even if true, which it's not, the distinction is that law-abiding people want guns for law-abiding purposes whereas criminals want them for criminal purposes. That one group intends criminality does not suggest that the other group should be interfered with in their lawful activities.

To control guns properly requires a nation -wide set of laws, and solid policing of those laws.

As the long experiment with CCW in the US proves, the only "gun control" we need is to teach people not to point the gun at anything they do not intend to destroy, not to place their finger on the trigger until they are on target, and to be aware of their target and what is beyond it.

[Seth]

There's no way to quantify any reduction in the number of guns owned or the ownership trends in the period you mention

For a while I thought "more guns, less crime" meant that there must have been more than twice the number of privately owned guns per capita in 1960 compared to 2014. Looks like the mantra applies always, except when it doesn't. Presumably, concealed carry permits were more than twice as easy to obtain instead. Thanks for the clarification.

You are correct, and you're welcome.

[Collector1337]

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/arc ... on/266613/

In the USA, there are about 100 home invasions each year which lead to a homicide.

Gun nutters are obsessed with self defense in the home. But having a gun in the home increases the likelihood of a member of your family using it to kill him/herself by a factor of 2 to 10 fold (depending on how securely it is stored).

Is it smart to keep a gun at home for self defense when the risk of being killed by a home invader is so small that on an individual basis it is nearly zero, when that same gun drastically and dramatically adds to the risk of a son or daughter suiciding?

You need to seriously work on your parenting skills if you legitimately concerned your kid is going to commit suicide with your own gun.

If this is a problem for you, then it's safe to assume you have bigger problems than worrying about gun control and trying to dictate to other people how to live their lives.

[Blind groper]

Seth

Criminals have guns when guns are available, which they are in the USA. In other western nations, the vast majority of criminals do not carry guns. Here in NZ, official statistics show that less than 1% of crimes are committed by a criminal carrying a gun. That is why we have very, very few murders with guns.

In the USA, of course, where you are all idiotic enough to make guns readily available, criminals carrying guns are common, and the death toll is high as a result.