Guns bad...case closed

[Xamonas Chegwé]

You talk as if the 2nd amendment was holy writ, Seth. It isn't (and neither is the constitution as a whole for that matter). It's just an afterthought that made sense at the time to those in power.

Amendments get repealed. The 18th was. And the 2nd is long overdue.

Good luck with that. And should you succeed, good luck in trying to collect all our arms, because you're going to need it...nay, you're going to need divine intervention and a miracle to survive even attempting to do so. So will any "government" that attempts it. You see, the whole reason the 2nd Amendment exists is so that the citizenry can be armed against those who would presume to infringe on our fundamental rights...all of them and each of them. Try to do so and we'll exercise the primary purpose of an armed citizenry: we will put you down like we'd put down any tyrant.

You see, the right to keep and bear arms cannot be repealed, it's not an amendment, it's an inherent, natural and unalienable right that accrues to every human being on the face of the earth, not just Americans. You can repeal the 2nd Amendment, but to paraphrase Andrew Jackson, "Now that you've repealed the Amendment, try and enforce it."

And there's way more of us than there are of you, and we've got the guns and you don't. You, and every other wannabe tyrant had best keep that firmly in mind.

I'm now a "Wannabe tyrant", am I? Trying to seize control of your country and your gnus!

You really are from a completely different planet, aren't you?

[Tero]

The one thing this thread was not about: the 2nd Amendment. That is in every other Gun Thread.

[Seth]

You talk as if the 2nd amendment was holy writ, Seth. It isn't (and neither is the constitution as a whole for that matter). It's just an afterthought that made sense at the time to those in power.

Amendments get repealed. The 18th was. And the 2nd is long overdue.

Good luck with that. And should you succeed, good luck in trying to collect all our arms, because you're going to need it...nay, you're going to need divine intervention and a miracle to survive even attempting to do so. So will any "government" that attempts it. You see, the whole reason the 2nd Amendment exists is so that the citizenry can be armed against those who would presume to infringe on our fundamental rights...all of them and each of them. Try to do so and we'll exercise the primary purpose of an armed citizenry: we will put you down like we'd put down any tyrant.

You see, the right to keep and bear arms cannot be repealed, it's not an amendment, it's an inherent, natural and unalienable right that accrues to every human being on the face of the earth, not just Americans. You can repeal the 2nd Amendment, but to paraphrase Andrew Jackson, "Now that you've repealed the Amendment, try and enforce it."

And there's way more of us than there are of you, and we've got the guns and you don't. You, and every other wannabe tyrant had best keep that firmly in mind.

I'm now a "Wannabe tyrant", am I? Trying to seize control of your country and your gnus!

You really are from a completely different planet, aren't you?

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

If you're not with us, you're against us, and if you're against us you're the pawns and sycophants of despots and tyrants and you pose a clear and present danger to the human rights of all free persons by your beliefs and actions.

It's just exactly that black and white, particularly in today's "global society" where the opinions of those from other nations are permitted to drive our sovereign national agenda because we happen to have wrongfully elected a traitorous asshole who is intent on subjugating us to the dictates of the Marxist/Socialist/Progressive left.

[Seth]

The one thing this thread was not about: the 2nd Amendment. That is in every other Gun Thread.

It's exactly about the 2nd Amendment.

[AvtomatKalashnikova]

Some gun is definitely bad.... Inaccurate, make many malfunctions, is get jammed in action. Some gun is quite good and reliable for shoot each time.

[AvtomatKalashnikova]

Chauchat of French design... That is bad gun, close case!

[Collector1337]

What about the phrase "WELL REGULATED"?

You clearly don't know what that means.

[JimC]

Seth wrote:

...wrongfully elected...

I know you don't like the guy, but are you going down the tin-foil hat route with the rest of the conspiracy nutters and say that his election was somehow illegal?

If you don't like having a Democrat president, get off your butt for the next election and campaign hard for a fellow libertarian. Then let the voters decide...

[Tero]

Seth wrote

Tero wrote:
More guns, more shooting
Contrary to the lies disseminated by the gun lobby, guns in our homes and on our streets do not make our families, or our communities, safer. The reality is that more guns statistically equate to both higher crime rates and more gun deaths, including higher rates of homicide, higher rates of suicide and the obvious, higher rates of “accidental shootings.” The moment a gun is brought into a home, the risk of violent death for every person living in that home increases.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/

Which is of course a lie and a fallacious appeal to the consequences of a belief.

Only based on NRA data. The NRA data you have been peddling for years has no real meaning. It cannot be fair, it is always biased.

[Seth]

Seth wrote:

...wrongfully elected...

I know you don't like the guy, but are you going down the tin-foil hat route with the rest of the conspiracy nutters and say that his election was somehow illegal?

Yep. He's not a "natural born citizen" of the United States because his father was not a US citizen. He is a citizen of the United States, but not a "natural born citizen," which requires that both parents be citizens, in order to be President. This restriction was put in place to prevent exactly what has happened with Obama: the election of someone who has loyalties and affiliations to other nations due to his parentage. In Obama's case, he has loyalties to Kenya and affiliations with Marxism created by his Marxist Kenyan father and Marxist mother, not to mention his affiliation with Islam, all of which he freely admits in his book.

This requirement has been, of course, roundly ignored and denied by the Marxists and Progressives, but it remains in force and therefore Obama was not eligible to run for, much less occupy the office of President of the United States.

If you don't like having a Democrat president, get off your butt for the next election and campaign hard for a fellow libertarian. Then let the voters decide...

I'm neutral about Democrats, but I loath and despise Marxists and their useful idiots Progressives who call themselves democrats, just as I loath and despise the Marxist useful idiot Progressives that masquerade as Republicans, like George Bush the younger and John Boehner. As for "the voters" I'm happy to let them decide, and they did, and now they are getting "democracy" good and hard. Hopefully that will set them straight for the next election, not that the current crop of candidates on either side are any better than what we've got already.

Rand Paul and Ben Carson are the only two people I would even begin to trust in office.

[Seth]

Seth wrote

Tero wrote:
More guns, more shooting
Contrary to the lies disseminated by the gun lobby, guns in our homes and on our streets do not make our families, or our communities, safer. The reality is that more guns statistically equate to both higher crime rates and more gun deaths, including higher rates of homicide, higher rates of suicide and the obvious, higher rates of “accidental shootings.” The moment a gun is brought into a home, the risk of violent death for every person living in that home increases.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/

Which is of course a lie and a fallacious appeal to the consequences of a belief.

Only based on NRA data. The NRA data you have been peddling for years has no real meaning. It cannot be fair, it is always biased.

Fallacy of circumstantial ad hominem.

The NRA doesn't have "data," it cites data from reliable sources like the FBI Uniform Crime Report and other federal agencies as well as citing peer-reviewed research and studies by academics. Dueling conclusions are inevitable in this situation, but the data cited by the NRA, and many others, have passed the test of time, and the debunkings of the biased and inaccurate left-wing anti-gun "research" you cite has also stood the test of time and review by experts.

Interestingly, here is the total information on the "about us" page on the website you use as a source for your claim:

Error 404 - Nothing Found
The page you are looking for could not be found.

It's an anti-gun, anti-conservative left wing shill site, that much is clear.

[Tero]

Th link is in the opening post, doofus!

[JimC]

Seth wrote:

Yep. He's not a "natural born citizen" of the United States because his father was not a US citizen. He is a citizen of the United States, but not a "natural born citizen," which requires that both parents be citizens, in order to be President. This restriction was put in place to prevent exactly what has happened with Obama: the election of someone who has loyalties and affiliations to other nations due to his parentage. In Obama's case, he has loyalties to Kenya and affiliations with Marxism created by his Marxist Kenyan father and Marxist mother, not to mention his affiliation with Islam, all of which he freely admits in his book.

This requirement has been, of course, roundly ignored and denied by the Marxists and Progressives, but it remains in force and therefore Obama was not eligible to run for, much less occupy the office of President of the United States.

Stated as incontrovertible fact, of course...

This is nothing more than an opinion by one man (or a small group of similar eccentrics). Over nearly 2 terms in office, the whole massive legal apparatus of the USA has not come to the same conclusion, and dismissed him from office...

A rather good example of tinfoil hat conspiracy at its most absurd...

[Hermit]

a "natural born citizen," which requires that both parents be citizens, in order to be President.

That is not what the US Constitution says.

Obama was not born in Kenya. He was born in Hawaii, which last time I checked was one of the 50 states comprising the USA. That makes him literally a natural born citizen of the USA. That is also why he was qualified to run for the US presidency.

[Seth]

a "natural born citizen," which requires that both parents be citizens, in order to be President.

That is not what the US Constitution says.

Yes, it is. Article 2, Section 1, clause 5 states:

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Obama was not born in Kenya. He was born in Hawaii, which last time I checked was one of the 50 states comprising the USA.

Well, there is dispute about that too, but assuming arguendo that he was born in Hawaii, that's irrelevant because it's not where HE was born that matters, it's the nationality of his PARENTS at the time he was born. According to Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5, and the pertinent then-contemporary definition of "natural born citizen" he is not qualified to be President.

That makes him literally a natural born citizen of the USA.

No, just a "citizen of the United States." "Natural born citizens" are a restricted subset of all US citizens comprised of those citizens born in the United States, or outside of the United States, to two parents, both of whom at the time of birth are US citizens. Obama's father was not ever a US citizen, he was a citizen of Kenya and a citizen of the UK.

That is also why he was qualified to run for the US presidency.

Not according to the Constitution he's not, never was, and never will be.