Britain is going to be Tory for at least 10 years.

[cronus]

The system is unimportant. A brain scan for the known markers of psychopathy, and elimination from contest on the grounds of potential moral insanity, is a essential improvement that politics requires.

http://psychcentral.com/news/2012/05/11 ... 38540.html

[cronus]

The system is unimportant. A brain scan for the known markers of psychopathy, and elimination from contest on the grounds of potential moral insanity, is a essential improvement that politics requires.

http://psychcentral.com/news/2012/05/11 ... 38540.html

[mistermack]

Democracy ... can go too far ... The public are too dumb to make important decisions.

Yes, the will of the people, as expressed by a democratic vote can and historically speaking has had not just regrettable but downright disastrous consequences, but what other options are there? A council of the wise? The likes of Rupert Murdoch and associated oligarchs are very much in favour of that, and I can clearly see why they would be. Or should we plumb for a benevolent dictator? Well, best of luck with the odds of getting one of those.

In Britain, we elect MPs who work for us and vote in parliament on our behalf.
So it's got elements of democracy, and elements of rule by an expert elite. If the expert elite is elected by the people, that's still democratic, but better than rule by too much democracy.
It's not AS democratic as rule by public referendum on each issue, but it's better.

Of course, we have the House of Lords, which is only the tiniest bit democratic, but it still seems acceptable to the masses.

[JimC]

One man one vote means that a lefty will always get elected from now on. Because the vast majority of Labour Party members, and paid up affiliates, are always going to be lefties.

That's just downright disgusting. If a party gets the leader the vast majority of its members want you ought to protest by voting for the Tories at the next election. Oh, wait...

Sure, it's democratic within the party membership, as of course it should be. But that doesn't change the thrust of mm's argument. In Britain, at least, party membership is always going to be more radical than the population as a whole, and their elected leader may simply be too overtly of the left for the voting public to stomach. From what I can see of British politics from the outside, that seems very likely, but of course the next election will be the acid test.

[Rum]

As things stand Jim I think you are right. People don't trust the far left as a rule and still remember that they were not above using 'dirty tricks' and intimidation as recently as the 80s. On the other hand there is no doubt that the general mood of 'ordinary' people includes a belief that recent governments of both colours have only widened the gap between the rich and the rest of us and would like to trust someone to do something about that without also wrecking the economy.

Corbin is going to be pretty progressive - the shadow cabinet, as a small example, has a majority of women. How radical he will be allowed to be is another thing.

[mistermack]

Corbyn is a million miles away from being the man to get the trust of the electorate.

Don't forget the last general election result. If they wanted someone to do a bit of redistribution, or close the gap between rich and poor, they would hardly have voted Tory in such numbers.

When Ed Milliband got elected, I thought that they had just blown the next election. When he appointed Ed Balls, the odds against doubled.
But compared to those two, what you have now might as well be Arthur Scargill and Red Robbo leading the party.

The media are dutifully keeping a straight face, and pretending that it's business as usual.
They can't say what they really think, without losing their pretence of neutrality.

The next round of opinion polls should be interesting, although I wouldn't like to make any predictions.
You would expect a new leadership would give some sort of temporary bounce to the party in the polls, but I wouldn't like to bet in this case.

The polls could be a bad indicator anyway, because this new new labour could appeal strongly to the kind of people who say that they will support labour, but then don't bother to vote on the day.

[cronus]

The only way Corbyn could attain power is if TSHTF so I'll give it 50/50 over five years having studied the turf.

[mistermack]

The only way Corbyn could attain power is if TSHTF so I'll give it 50/50 over five years having studied the turf.

You can say that again !!

[Rum]

Corbyn is a million miles away from being the man to get the trust of the electorate.

Don't forget the last general election result. If they wanted someone to do a bit of redistribution, or close the gap between rich and poor, they would hardly have voted Tory in such numbers.

When Ed Milliband got elected, I thought that they had just blown the next election. When he appointed Ed Balls, the odds against doubled.
But compared to those two, what you have now might as well be Arthur Scargill and Red Robbo leading the party.

The media are dutifully keeping a straight face, and pretending that it's business as usual.
They can't say what they really think, without losing their pretence of neutrality.

The next round of opinion polls should be interesting, although I wouldn't like to make any predictions.
You would expect a new leadership would give some sort of temporary bounce to the party in the polls, but I wouldn't like to bet in this case.

The polls could be a bad indicator anyway, because this new new labour could appeal strongly to the kind of people who say that they will support labour, but then don't bother to vote on the day.

As of today I agree. As things stand they don't have a hope of getting elected next time. But if he really is after a 'broad church' and succeeds - and who knows if he can - they might just be electable in a few years time.

Incidentally I went to see Milliband speak when he came to this neck of the woods about a year before the last election. It was only a small gathering - 150 or so people, so it was up close. I was deeply unimpressed and shortly after that let my membership of the party lapse.

[JimC]

Australia's Liberal Party just became much more electable in our next election, as the right-wing rabble rouser PM, Tony Abbott, got dumped by his party and replaced by a relative moderate, Malcolm Turnbull. The labour party leader, Bill Shorten, will be seriously pissed off...

[Rum]

As are the SNP here, as I predicted elsewhere. Corbyn says they can't steal Labour's social justice credentials. Game on!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/polit ... on-6437299

[mistermack]

When you appoint a complete and utter twat as shadow chancellor, what does that make you?

More electable?

This is going from fucking stupid, to farce. John Mcdonnell, the shadow chancellor, for fuck's sake, had to creep and crawl to the question time audience last night, over his comments that IRA men should be "honoured" made 12 years ago. What a bunch of cunts Labour has in charge ! Can it possibly get any worse?

[mistermack]

Labour are in the process of ditching Corbyn's wish to scrap Trident nuclear weapons.

It's being sold as a defeat for Corbyn behind the scenes at the Labour conference. They are not going to debate it. The unions "apparently" blocked his attempt to get it debated.

More likely, Corbyn has quickly realised that planning to unilaterally scrap Britain's nuclear weapons will be an absolute guarantee of losing the next election. So he'd rather drop it, but he can't say he's changed his mind. So it will have to be portrayed as a defeat for him behind the scenes, to keep his left-wing support on side. There's no other option.

That's my theory any way. What will make it clear, is how hard he tries to get the policy on Trident changed to scrapping it. My guess is he won't try too hard. We'll see.

[mistermack]

Well, I've got my answer, and I certainly misjudged Corbyn.

He's just said that if he becomes Prime Minister, he will never press the nuclear button under any circumstances. I gave him too much credit for intelligence.
In one statement, he's guaranteed that any chance that there was, of getting elected, has just evaporated.

His defence shadow minister described his comments as "unhelpful".

I'd love to know what she would REALLY like to say.
Because, no matter what the official party line ends up being, he's just cancelled it out.
If Labour get in, Trident is effectively scrapped.

I'm beginning to wonder if the secret service will kill him. I genuinely wouldn't put it past them.
Perhaps a Fiat in a French Tunnel?

There are people out there who would actually do that, and get away with it.
Obviously, Labour have very little chance of winning. But I'm not sure the people in the shadows would wait to find out.

[cronus]

Well, I've got my answer, and I certainly misjudged Corbyn.

He's just said that if he becomes Prime Minister, he will never press the nuclear button under any circumstances. I gave him too much credit for intelligence.
In one statement, he's guaranteed that any chance that there was, of getting elected, has just evaporated.

His defence shadow minister described his comments as "unhelpful".

I'd love to know what she would REALLY like to say.
Because, no matter what the official party line ends up being, he's just cancelled it out.
If Labour get in, Trident is effectively scrapped.

I'm beginning to wonder if the secret service will kill him. I genuinely wouldn't put it past them.
Perhaps a Fiat in a French Tunnel?

There are people out there who would actually do that, and get away with it.
Obviously, Labour have very little chance of winning. But I'm not sure the people in the shadows would wait to find out.

I would press the nuclear button if I attained power. Have total faith in Scumple the investment would not be waisted on a inactive weapons system.