Britain is going to be Tory for at least 10 years.

[jamest]

The point is that if Corbyn gets elected as leader of the Labour party, then his views are indicative of that party's views at this moment in time. And if you don't agree with those views nor want him as a leader, then you are [at this time] not a Labour party supporter. Maybe you should look elsewhere?

[mistermack]

The point is that if Corbyn gets elected as leader of the Labour party, then his views are indicative of that party's views at this moment in time. And if you don't agree with those views nor want him as a leader, then you are [at this time] not a Labour party supporter. Maybe you should look elsewhere?

I certainly will.
The only time I ever voted Conservative, was when Neil Kinnock was Labour leader.
I'm a Labour supporter, unless they put a dangerous asshole in charge, in which case I'll swallow my bitter pill and vote to keep him out.

The point I'm making is that I'm well to the left of most of the country, as proved by the last general election.
If they can make ME vote conservative, what hope have they got?

[Brian Peacock]

The point is that if Corbyn gets elected as leader of the Labour party, then his views are indicative of that party's views at this moment in time. And if you don't agree with those views nor want him as a leader, then you are [at this time] not a Labour party supporter. Maybe you should look elsewhere?

I was thinking about this during last weekend's round of political hand wringing on low sofas. When all but one of the candidates is making a big noise about how one of the candidates is unelectable, and yet that candidate is the favourite with up to 62% approval among the party memvership according to sone polls, then what the naysayers are communicating is A) the majority view is irrelevant, and B) party politics is about power at any cost, with principles and policies manipulated to that end.

No wonder the electorate is apathetic.

[JimC]

The point is that if Corbyn gets elected as leader of the Labour party, then his views are indicative of that party's views at this moment in time. And if you don't agree with those views nor want him as a leader, then you are [at this time] not a Labour party supporter. Maybe you should look elsewhere?

I was thinking about this during last weekend's round of political hand wringing on low sofas. When all but one of the candidates is making a big noise about how one of the candidates is unelectable, and yet that candidate is the favourite with up to 62% approval among the party memvership according to sone polls, then what the naysayers are communicating is A) the majority view is irrelevant, and B) party politics is about power at any cost, with principles and policies manipulated to that end.

No wonder the electorate is apathetic.

I can sympathise with this point of view; similar dilemmas crop up in Oz, and probably all similar democracies dominated by party politics. However, it may still be the case that a principled election of a leader such as this may lead to the Tories remaining in power for some considerable time, glared at across the chamber by a small and highly principled opposition...

[mistermack]

It's the nature of political parties that they all tone down the inclinations of the extreme wing, to get elected.
The Tories do this. I may disagree with them, but at least they aren't stupid.
Most Tories are way to the right of the government.

Labour have just proved that they ARE stupid. They've voted in control by the extreme wing, and will never win an election.

To be honest, they were going to struggle anyway, even if a right-winger had won.
Now they have no chance whatsoever. The Tories will have to give it away. Labour couldn't possibly win without some gigantic cock-up scandal. Even that might not be enough.

Anyway, it's official. Corbyn has won on the first round of the ballot.

RIP Labour, as a government.

[cronus]

Nothing is certain. Corbyn might not win a election but the Tories could easily lose one. Gave a cracking speech, five years of that in Cameron's ear-hole and a few policy mistakes are very likely.

[Rum]

This could just win Scotland over too and get votes back from the SNP. Without Scotland Labour didn't stand a chance anyway.

At any rate a real opposition for the first time in decades.

[mistermack]

In many ways, I guess that it's made little difference.
Labour were never going to win an election with any of the other candidates anyway.
To weigh up the chances of Labour in 2020, is to weigh up the chances of a miracle.

Having said that, it's a political miracle, not a numerical one.
I can't see any chance that they will get back voters who voted Tory this year.
In fact, they will lose a lot of voters, who voted for Labour this time around. How do I know that?
I'm going by myself, who has always voted Labour, except once.
I will almost certainly vote Tory next time. And I wasn't even wavering this year. I'm pretty sure that the floating voters who eventually chose Labour this year, will go Tory next time.

So where will they get the votes to win in 2020? Their only chance is to get people who never vote, to go out and vote Labour. That could happen, but it would be a major miracle if they did.

Having said that, the bookies only have the Conservatives at 2/5 at the moment.
I suppose 4.5 years is a long time in politics, and it's a bit soon.
Tomorrow's odds might be more of a clue.

[Rum]

I suspect you are right. I am really torn personally, as an old lefty of the old fashioned kind it is good to see some of the idealism that motivated the founding of the party in the first place back in play. On the other hand I don't for a moment think the British will tolerate a return to old fashioned socialist policies. Even the poor believe that it is all about catching up with the rich these days rather than redistribution.

[cronus]

Country had no shortages since the 70s so redistribution lacks a motivating factor. The way the global economy looks right now, distinctly like a washing machine that's in the process of throwing its Chinese made belt....that lack of motivation regarding distribution could change.

[Svartalf]

This could just win Scotland over too and get votes back from the SNP. Without Scotland Labour didn't stand a chance anyway.

At any rate a real opposition for the first time in decades.

I hear that the Scots are euro friendly while corbyn is a euro skeptic... I don't see his winning changing much of the current lay of the land

[Rum]

He is pretty inexperienced and doesn't do the media well though that is perhaps to his credit to many.

I think he will probably be gone well before the next election. But if he can win back some of the Scottish vote (I don't think his Euro stance will affect that) it could change the lay of the land. Could.

[mistermack]

This could just win Scotland over too and get votes back from the SNP. Without Scotland Labour didn't stand a chance anyway.

At any rate a real opposition for the first time in decades.

I'm not sure I agree. What is a real opposition? One with dramatically different views, or one that stands a good chance of winning next time.
I think the Corbyn Labour Party can't put any pressure on the Tories. They can say plenty, but threaten nothing.

The Tories now have a free hand, unless they hit a disaster. The only interesting thing I can see coming up, is whether Cameron actually keeps to his stated intention to quit as leader before the next election.
I wouldn't like to second-guess that, as nobody knows why he made that statement.
In his position, I'd take it back right now. Having won two fairly challenging elections, it must be sorely tempting to stay on for an easy one.

[Svartalf]

we'll see
best to you, anything to get rid of the tories

[mistermack]

He is pretty inexperienced and doesn't do the media well though that is perhaps to his credit to many.

I think he will probably be gone well before the next election. But if he can win back some of the Scottish vote (I don't think his Euro stance will affect that) it could change the lay of the land. Could.

His Euro stance is going to be interesting.
But once the vote is taken, he's pretty much off the hook. The people will have spoken, and he can just quietly abide by the result.

It will be interesting to see how he handles the media pressure. I'll bet that the journalists are already planning on getting their scoop, by getting him to explode. They know how to push, shove, and annoy, just enough to get under your skin.

If I was in his team, I'd be rehearsing the worst of it (in private) to get him accustomed to just how nasty it can be. He looks like he needs the practice.