Questions for a priest.

[mistermack]

What would you ask a priest, if you had a one-to-one chat with them about religion?
Post your questions here.


One thing I would ask is, does god know the future?
The impression is given in the bible that it's possible to know the future. After all, that's what prophets are all about. And Jesus made a few prophecies of his own. If it is possible, then god must know all of the future.
That would be included in the repertoire of an all-knowing god, you would think.

In which case, how can you maintain that humans have a free will? If god knows what you are going to do, then you might think that you make decisions as they come up, but in fact, it's all pre-ordained.
How can god judge you, for what you did, when he knows that you had no choice?

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Do you seriously believe all this shit?

[Seth]

What would you ask a priest, if you had a one-to-one chat with them about religion?
Post your questions here.


One thing I would ask is, does god know the future?
The impression is given in the bible that it's possible to know the future. After all, that's what prophets are all about. And Jesus made a few prophecies of his own. If it is possible, then god must know all of the future.
That would be included in the repertoire of an all-knowing god, you would think.

In which case, how can you maintain that humans have a free will? If god knows what you are going to do, then you might think that you make decisions as they come up, but in fact, it's all pre-ordained.
How can god judge you, for what you did, when he knows that you had no choice?

God knowing what's going to happen does not mean that he preordains the outcomes. That implies that he is manipulating things to achieve the outcome he knows of. But the concept of free will is that while God may know what you're going to do and what's going to happen in the future, you don't, and therefore you are free to make your own decisions and live with the consequences thereof, despite God knowing that you're going to make those decisions. It's only "preordained" if God CAUSES you to make those decisions, which, Christians say, God does not do. He just knows what's about to happen and chooses not to intervene (usually) in order to allow you to exercise your free will. You have all the choices. God offers you salvation and redemption for the sins you commit, knowing that you're going to commit them, but doesn't demand that you take him up on that offer. It's up to you to decide even though he knows what you're going to decide before you do.

[Seth]

Do you seriously believe all this shit?

Does one have to believe or disbelieve in order to participate in an intellectual discussion of the subject?

[mistermack]

Do you seriously believe all this shit?

Well, some of them must do, and maybe some don't.
But they would virtually all say yes I do. So that wouldn't really tell you much.

Some of them really are nice people, and very sincere. It's those that interest me.

[mistermack]

God knowing what's going to happen does not mean that he preordains the outcomes. That implies that he is manipulating things to achieve the outcome he knows of. But the concept of free will is that while God may know what you're going to do and what's going to happen in the future, you don't, and therefore you are free to make your own decisions and live with the consequences thereof, despite God knowing that you're going to make those decisions. It's only "preordained" if God CAUSES you to make those decisions, which, Christians say, God does not do. He just knows what's about to happen and chooses not to intervene (usually) in order to allow you to exercise your free will. You have all the choices. God offers you salvation and redemption for the sins you commit, knowing that you're going to commit them, but doesn't demand that you take him up on that offer. It's up to you to decide even though he knows what you're going to decide before you do.

WTF? If he knows the future, then there is only one possible future. That means it IS pre-ordained. If he didn't pre-ordain it, who did?
There is no manipulation implied to achieve outcomes. The future must be just as fixed as the past, if god can know it. Why on earth should intervention be necessary, when there is only one possible future?

[Seth]

God knowing what's going to happen does not mean that he preordains the outcomes. That implies that he is manipulating things to achieve the outcome he knows of. But the concept of free will is that while God may know what you're going to do and what's going to happen in the future, you don't, and therefore you are free to make your own decisions and live with the consequences thereof, despite God knowing that you're going to make those decisions. It's only "preordained" if God CAUSES you to make those decisions, which, Christians say, God does not do. He just knows what's about to happen and chooses not to intervene (usually) in order to allow you to exercise your free will. You have all the choices. God offers you salvation and redemption for the sins you commit, knowing that you're going to commit them, but doesn't demand that you take him up on that offer. It's up to you to decide even though he knows what you're going to decide before you do.

WTF? If he knows the future, then there is only one possible future. That means it IS pre-ordained. If he didn't pre-ordain it, who did?
There is no manipulation implied to achieve outcomes. The future must be just as fixed as the past, if god can know it. Why on earth should intervention be necessary, when there is only one possible future?

Perhaps, being omniscient, he knows ALL possible futures. In the multiverse theory of cosmology, each decision point leads to a branching off of a new set of universes where all possible decisions and their outcomes occur. God might therefore know all of the possible outcomes of every possible point of divergence without having preordained anything. Knowledge is not the same thing as causation...unless it is.

Thus, he knows if you're going to wank tonight by virtue of the fact that you can wank tonight or you can not wank tonight, which creates two futures in each of which one of the choices occurs, and God sees BOTH outcomes at the same time, thus having knowledge, without actually interfering with or preordaining your free will to make the decision.

You falsely presume as a part of your argument that there is only one possible future.

[JimC]

Does a god like that provide us with a quantum of solace?

[JimC]

"What do you look for in an altar boy?"

[mistermack]

Perhaps, being omniscient, he knows ALL possible futures. In the multiverse theory of cosmology, each decision point leads to a branching off of a new set of universes where all possible decisions and their outcomes occur. God might therefore know all of the possible outcomes of every possible point of divergence without having preordained anything. Knowledge is not the same thing as causation...unless it is.

Thus, he knows if you're going to wank tonight by virtue of the fact that you can wank tonight or you can not wank tonight, which creates two futures in each of which one of the choices occurs, and God sees BOTH outcomes at the same time, thus having knowledge, without actually interfering with or preordaining your free will to make the decision.

You falsely presume as a part of your argument that there is only one possible future.

Sorry, which page of the bible is this in, Father?
In any case, if I both decide to wank, and decide not to wank, then I have no free will, do I ?

[rainbow]

Why would priests know anything about God?
They are purveyors of Religion. Not the same thing at all.

[JimC]

My mind is a strange ferment of ideas!

Seth, the nature of god, quantum physics and wanking!

I have a possible thought experiment. Ernst Schrodinger is confined in a box, where the decay of a radioactive element causes, with 50% probability for each, a sign to light up saying WANK or DON'T WANK.

When the box is closed, Schrodinger is wanking and not wanking at the same time! Even god is confused!

When we open the box, the wave function collapses! And so does poor Ernst!

[mistermack]

My mind is a strange ferment of ideas!

Seth, the nature of god, quantum physics and wanking!

I have a possible thought experiment. Ernst Schrodinger is confined in a box, where the decay of a radioactive element causes, with 50% probability for each, a sign to light up saying WANK or DON'T WANK.

When the box is closed, Schrodinger is wanking and not wanking at the same time! Even god is confused!

When we open the box, the wave function collapses! And so does poor Ernst!

I'm not sure that I do actually have a free will, when it comes to wanking.
It seems to happen when the balance of my mind is disturbed.


Your honour.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Is Ernst, Erwin's brother?

[mistermack]

Is Ernst, Erwin's brother?

Yeh. He was the nice one. Erwin was a real bighead :



Typical of the Irish Austrians.