Why creationists can laugh at atheist feminists?

[pErvinalia]

How about... no? You're a waste of space. You don't even understand the basics of what you are "arguing". Not that you argue anything. You just rant and call people names. You still seem to be operating under the misapprehension that you are deserving of respect.

[JimC]

As I've already said, I think that using the "patriarchy" meme is ideologically rigid and rather absurd. It is not used by pragmatic, mainstream feminists who simply want to address evolutionary improvements in certain social issues, but is used by doctrinaire academic feminists who are, in reality, a small although vocal minority. rEv and Dave both, get over your fixation on this term, it is a meme whose time is past...

[pErvinalia]

I think it's just misunderstood as both you and Dave prove.

We don't have to live in fear of teh feminazis just as we don't have to live in fear of radical (or otherwise) Muslims. Mis-characterising whole segments of society based on prejudice is irrational.

[JimC]

I think it's just misunderstood as both you and Dave prove.

We don't have to live in fear of teh feminazis just as we don't have to live in fear of radical (or otherwise) Muslims. Mis-characterising whole segments of society based on prejudice is irrational.

It may have been a reasonable description of one aspect of western society in the past, and is probably still a reasonable one in islamic countries, but it is misleading as a reasonable descriptor of, say, Australian society at the moment. It implies a conscious use of power by one sex to dominate another over the whole of society, and is simply over the top. A particular male, however, could be criticised for patriarchal attitudes to women...

None of which is to suggest that mainstream feminist programs to reduce various inequalities are not worthwhile; it's simply that using the term "the patriarchy" is both inaccurate and counter-productive, and is only seriously used by left-wing academic feminists, who can be legitimately targeted for rigid ideological views, IMO...

But Dave, they are not representative of feminism as a whole, even if they claim they are...

[pErvinalia]

Patriarchy affects both sexes, as I was trying to explain to Dave. It's in both sexes interest to get rid of it.

[Hermit]

^^^ Exactly. Notwithstanding the few exceptions patriarchy is about women being expected to do the bulk of raising children and doing domestic chores and men doing hazardous jobs to bring in the money and getting killed in wars.

[JimC]

^^^ Exactly. Notwithstanding the few exceptions patriarchy is about women being expected to do the bulk of raising children and doing domestic chores and men doing hazardous jobs to bring in the money and getting killed in wars.

And is that really an accurate description of expectations now?

[pErvinalia]

Qualitatively yes. You only have to look at the stats on both sides of the equation to see that there is still a large gender gap on a number of issues.

[Hermit]

^^^ Exactly. Notwithstanding the few exceptions patriarchy is about women being expected to do the bulk of raising children and doing domestic chores and men doing hazardous jobs to bring in the money and getting killed in wars.

And is that really an accurate description of expectations now?

Check out what percentage of soldiers, miners and construction workers and what percentage of men are the main care givers in a family or nurses or teachers, then ask the question again.

[JimC]

Qualitatively yes. You only have to look at the stats on both sides of the equation to see that there is still a large gender gap on a number of issues.

But is that fact best described by the loaded term "the patriarchy"?

[JimC]

^^^ Exactly. Notwithstanding the few exceptions patriarchy is about women being expected to do the bulk of raising children and doing domestic chores and men doing hazardous jobs to bring in the money and getting killed in wars.

And is that really an accurate description of expectations now?

Check out what percentage of soldiers, miners and construction workers and what percentage of men are the main care givers in a family, then ask the question again.

Sure, but, as I said to rEv, is the use of the term "the patriarchy" useful in analysing and improving the situation?

[Hermit]

^^^ Exactly. Notwithstanding the few exceptions patriarchy is about women being expected to do the bulk of raising children and doing domestic chores and men doing hazardous jobs to bring in the money and getting killed in wars.

And is that really an accurate description of expectations now?

Check out what percentage of soldiers, miners and construction workers and what percentage of men are the main care givers in a family, then ask the question again.

Sure, but, as I said to rEv, is the use of the term "the patriarchy" useful in analysing and improving the situation?

Well, you may prefer to take a politician's approach to the issue by talking around the bush. Then a spade is not a spade - it's an agricultural implement that has many uses. Besides you did a whole lot more than just objecting to the word "patriarchy". You said it no longer exists in the western world: "It may have been a reasonable description of one aspect of western society in the past, and is probably still a reasonable one in islamic countries, but it is misleading as a reasonable descriptor of, say, Australian society at the moment." That is crap. Patriarchy is not limited to the conscious suppression of women. It is woven into the very fabric of today's Zeitgeist. Australia is not excepted from this. The statistics prove it.

[pErvinalia]

Qualitatively yes. You only have to look at the stats on both sides of the equation to see that there is still a large gender gap on a number of issues.

But is that fact best described by the loaded term "the patriarchy"?

It's not loaded at all. It describes the situation well, IMO.

[Tyrannical]

A funnier title would have been "Why evolutionists can laugh at atheist feminists"

"The bible says that women should be subservient"

"I'm an atheist feminist and don't believe in male patriarchal superstitions"

"Through natural selection, women have evolved to be subservient and gender rolls are linked genetically.

"I'm an atheist feminist and don't believe in male patriarchal superstitions"

[piscator]

women have evolved to be subservient