Blasphemy

[Seth]

Got Merkins killed (allegedly). He might have saved countless other lives by exposing what he did.

It's not within his rights to make that determination or get people killed based on his own speculative assessment of the value of the documents. Therefore he initiated force and must be punished.

That's exactly like saying that he opened fire on someone he thought was an armed criminal by spraying machine gun fire all over the mall, where he killed a bunch of innocent people on the premise that he thought it was more important to shoot at the supposed criminal.

[Ian]

The whole thing is a goddamn COVER STORY.

[Seth]

The whole thing is a goddamn COVER STORY.

Yeah. Where's the fucking spook with the nerve-toxin pellet in the umbrella when you really need him.

Would somebody PLEASE sanction the fucker with extreme prejudice. Pretty please.

[pErvinalia]

There's a new revelation today out of his material. The US and UK stole SIM card encryption from a major manufacturer, allowing them to spy on certain mobile communications illegally at will. I can't remember what all his other allegations were, but I seem to remember them involving illegal actions by the US government. Basically Seth is supporting a Big Brother State over an individual who showed that the state is out of control. A couple of the State's agents got killed, and Seth has sympathy for the State. As I said, you are no libertarian, Seth.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-20/s ... en/6161364

[rainbow]

Got Merkins killed (allegedly). He might have saved countless other lives by exposing what he did.

It's not within his rights to make that determination or get people killed based on his own speculative assessment of the value of the documents.

Who has that right?

Big Government????

[Ian]

I rather think we have total agreement between Seth and Ian for the first and probably the last time...

Not really. If Seth knew the truth, he wouldn't take such a soft, lenient stance toward the guy.

[pErvinalia]

What's the "truth", Ian? Did the US/UK etc do the things the documents he released show?

[Ian]

Right in that question shows the problem. Like most people, you've bought into the story that he's an idealistic whistle-blower. I too would've believed that was the basis of his story, if I didn't know otherwise.

Try this on for size: Is it possible that he hasn't "released" anything at all in the last twenty months? That someone else is systematically releasing these things that they "found", like the latest story today?

Furthermore, it possible that he's never been a whistle-blower at all, but rather a defector who stole enormous amounts of sensitive information, and turned over some tiny fraction of it at the outset to a couple of media dupes; just something seemingly controversial enough to get him labeled as a "whistle-blower" when the story broke? After which, he was "reluctantly" allowed to stay in Russia.

Is it possible that his actions have cost hundreds of billions in damage, not to mention an indeterminate number of lives lost?

Is it possible that the whole thing was engineered by Russian counterintelligence, to undermine US relationships with other countries, and to weaken the US administration's popularity at home?

Nah, that's all stuff from old Cold War movies. Russian counterintelligence may still exist, but those guys are only there to warm chairs. Surely they don't really do anything anymore, certainly not with Vladimir Putin watching over them.

Remember, I'm not making statements, just asking questions...

[pErvinalia]

I guess it's all possible. The question would be, why wouldn't Russia claim him? Why the ruse?

[piscator]

Someone here has to be the tank mechanic...

[Ian]

Rev -Why would they? The blowback against Russia is bad enough lately, and not all of it is because of Ukraine. What if the American public became furious about what Russia did, instead of divided about what Snowden did? Suppose the people of other nations were aware of just how badly their own countries were damaged (it wasn't just the US!), rather than being left alone to wag their fingers at the US for its spying? Really, if you were Russia, would you want to concentrate the focus of the US and all its allies on you, a Cold War 2.0? Or would you want to keep people grumbling about US imperialism? No way... when you pull off a coup of this magnitude, you don't go bragging about it.

And on the other side, why wouldn't Washington admit to just how disastrous the damage was? Because in a world loaded with opportunistic rivals you don't advertise just how weakened you've become due something like that. Just like a business doesn't voluntarily advertise that they've become financially unstable or their products might not be reliable.
Besides, people just don't believe accusations much, even from a President. But they'll believe a confession (or a leak) from lots of people, especially if their first impression is that he's a noble "whistle-blower".

[Seth]

Got Merkins killed (allegedly). He might have saved countless other lives by exposing what he did.

It's not within his rights to make that determination or get people killed based on his own speculative assessment of the value of the documents.

Who has that right?

Not Snowden.

[Seth]

There's a new revelation today out of his material. The US and UK stole SIM card encryption from a major manufacturer, allowing them to spy on certain mobile communications illegally at will. I can't remember what all his other allegations were, but I seem to remember them involving illegal actions by the US government. Basically Seth is supporting a Big Brother State over an individual who showed that the state is out of control. A couple of the State's agents got killed, and Seth has sympathy for the State. As I said, you are no libertarian, Seth.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-20/s ... en/6161364

Depends on whether you see espionage against our enemies to be "illegal actions."

Since out enemies are not engaged in peaceable activities and have initiated both force and fraud against the United States, our self-defense retaliation and spying is perfectly appropriate.

[Seth]

I rather think we have total agreement between Seth and Ian for the first and probably the last time...

Not really. If Seth knew the truth, he wouldn't take such a soft, lenient stance toward the guy.

It's getting to the point where we might consider taking him out with a tactical nuke...while he's shaking hands with Putin.

[Seth]

Right in that question shows the problem. Like most people, you've bought into the story that he's an idealistic whistle-blower. I too would've believed that was the basis of his story, if I didn't know otherwise.

Try this on for size: Is it possible that he hasn't "released" anything at all in the last twenty months? That someone else is systematically releasing these things that they "found", like the latest story today?

Furthermore, it possible that he's never been a whistle-blower at all, but rather a defector who stole enormous amounts of sensitive information, and turned over some tiny fraction of it at the outset to a couple of media dupes; just something seemingly controversial enough to get him labeled as a "whistle-blower" when the story broke? After which, he was "reluctantly" allowed to stay in Russia.

Is it possible that his actions have cost hundreds of billions in damage, not to mention an indeterminate number of lives lost?

Is it possible that the whole thing was engineered by Russian counterintelligence, to undermine US relationships with other countries, and to weaken the US administration's popularity at home?

Nah, that's all stuff from old Cold War movies. Russian counterintelligence may still exist, but those guys are only there to warm chairs. Surely they don't really do anything anymore, certainly not with Vladimir Putin watching over them.

Remember, I'm not making statements, just asking questions...

Have you read "Blacklisted by History" by M. Stanton Evans? You should.