Immigrants make you richer.

[JimC]

Working for your money and getting a return on investments you have used the money you have worked for equals stealing in the lolbertardian scheme of things?

You got where you are because your socialist society gave you the fruits of other people's labor without their consent.

The vast majority of Australians would tell you to go fuck yourself, Seth. You have no understanding whatsoever of how our country works, so why don't you confine yourself to impotent venting about your own "marxist" government, and leave the rest of the world to people who actually live there...

[Hermit]

Working for your money and getting a return on investments you have used the money you have worked for equals stealing in the lolbertardian scheme of things?

You got where you are because your socialist society gave you the fruits of other people's labor without their consent.

I am where I am because I have worked for my money. Then I have invested the money I earnt with my labour, and the investments turned out to be good ones.

[pErvinalia]

So. So did you. The difference is that Hermit is a believer in a fair society. You sponge off your society despite it being against your alleged principles.

[mistermack]

You got where you are because your socialist society gave you the fruits of other people's labor without their consent.

If you don't consent to paying tax, you can always fuck off somewhere else. Or start a no-tax party. That's freedom for you.

Anyway, America got where it is because it took the fruits of other peoples labour without their consent.
It's the American way.

[Hermit]

Um, I didn't say that. ^^^ You fucked the quote tag up. Or you don't know how to spell "Seth".

[laklak]

I am where I am because I have worked for my money. Then I have invested the money I earnt with my labour, and the investments turned out to be good ones.

I did the same. Our only point of difference is what constitutes a "fair share" for tax purposes.

I realize that despite my not giving much of a shit about others, it is in my best interest to fund things like public education, roads, a military, etc.

[Blind groper]

One of the flaws in Seth's (and other libertarian's) "logic" is the assumption that those who make lots of money have achieved it through hard work and talent.

I am afraid that is only a little bit true. I have been a businessman. I ran my own business for 14 years, and made quite a lot of money. Sufficient so that I am now comfortably retired. But a lot of that was pure, sheer luck. Nor merit.

When a person sets out to make investments, or run a business, it does take work, and at least a little bit of know-how, but simple bad luck can utterly destroy it, and simple good luck can turn such a person into a millionnaire. Merit is definitely limited.

Socialism, within limits (and remember the balance I keep talking of) can be an equalising factor, to iron out the benefits some businesspeople get via very good luck. In fact, where there is no socialism, there is widespread poverty. We have seen this in extreme right wing countries, such as existed in Chile and other South American nations.

The best countries in the world to live in today are all socialist to a degree. Not too much. Not too little. Countries such as Iceland, Sweden, Norway, and others like them consistently score at the top of international surveys of the best countries to live in.

[JimC]

Goldilocks and the 3 socialists...

Goldilocks tasted one bowl of socialist porridge, but it had so little socialism in it that even Tony Abbot would have grudgingly approved. Yuck, said Goldilocks.

She tried another bowl, but it had so much socialism that it was bright crimson in colour. Fucking reds, said Goldilocks.

Then she tried the third bowl. It was a nice delicate pink, and tasted scrumptious. Oh goody, said Goldilocks, I've found the perfect Scandinavian model of socialism. Now all I need is a hunky blond Swede and some massage oil...

[laklak]

I'm sure the luck of the draw has something to do with something or another, BG. However, you do yourself a disservice by attributing to luck what was more likely due to your hard work and acumen.

"Bad luck" is a tornado or a hurricane. Refusing to buy tornado or hurricane insurance for your business or buying an old house in the flood plain isn't bad luck, it's stupidity. Dropping dead of an undiagnosed heart defect is bad luck, ignoring a preexisting heart condition is not.

My luck was to be born into a white, middle-class family with their emphasis on education and hard work. I'll cop to that. But making the decisions I did to get into the industry I did, to work where I did, to invest the proceeds as I did had nothing at all to do with luck.

[piscator]

I'm sure the luck of the draw has something to do with something or another, BG. However, you do yourself a disservice by attributing to luck what was more likely due to your hard work and acumen.

"Bad luck" is a tornado or a hurricane. Refusing to buy tornado or hurricane insurance for your business or buying an old house in the flood plain isn't bad luck, it's stupidity. Dropping dead of an undiagnosed heart defect is bad luck, ignoring a preexisting heart condition is not.

My luck was to be born into a white, middle-class family with their emphasis on education and hard work. I'll cop to that. But making the decisions I did to get into the industry I did, to work where I did, to invest the proceeds as I did had nothing at all to do with luck.

Right. It was straight-up determinism. You don't live in a vacuum. You don't have "Free Will".

[Blind groper]

Yes, a little know how is important. But luck is always a factor too. The whole point I am making is simply that being wealthy is not 100% due to virtue, and being poor is not always the fault of the person who is poor. Unlike Seth, it is important that we show a little empathy and understanding for those who have not managed to make themselves wealthy.

Having the right parents also helps, and that is pure luck. Royalty, for example, simply means being descended from the most successful gangsters.

I certainly do not advocate extreme socialism. But a little socialism is needed to level out the inequities in society.

[Seth]

Working for your money and getting a return on investments you have used the money you have worked for equals stealing in the lolbertardian scheme of things?

You got where you are because your socialist society gave you the fruits of other people's labor without their consent.

The vast majority of Australians would tell you to go fuck yourself, Seth. You have no understanding whatsoever of how our country works, so why don't you confine yourself to impotent venting about your own "marxist" government, and leave the rest of the world to people who actually live there...

Of course they would because a majority of Australians benefit from enslaving other Australians to their benefit. That's a hallmark of Marxist socialism. Those who own slaves always decry attempts to free them.

Does your country impose redistributionary taxes that take from one person and give to another? Does your country believe that the majority rules over the rights of the individual? Can your government prevent you from enjoying the fruits of your labor based on the needs of the collective?

That being the case, you profit from the labor of others taken from them by force against their will. QED.

And I absolutely agree that the American government is highly socialist and in no small degree Marxist, particularly under the present regime.

[Seth]

Working for your money and getting a return on investments you have used the money you have worked for equals stealing in the lolbertardian scheme of things?

You got where you are because your socialist society gave you the fruits of other people's labor without their consent.

I am where I am because I have worked for my money. Then I have invested the money I earnt with my labour, and the investments turned out to be good ones.

Then you are a slave to your Marxist socialist masters and you have my pity.

You see, Libertarianism isn't about being wealthy, it's about being free.

[Seth]

So. So did you. The difference is that Hermit is a believer in a fair society.

That depends on your (Marxist Socialist) definition of "fair."

You sponge off your society despite it being against your alleged principles.

How so?

[Seth]

You got where you are because your socialist society gave you the fruits of other people's labor without their consent.

If you don't consent to paying tax, you can always fuck off somewhere else. Or start a no-tax party. That's freedom for you.

Anyway, America got where it is because it took the fruits of other peoples labour without their consent.
It's the American way.

Sadly true in many cases.