Immigrants make you richer.

[cronus]

If you are poor and unskilled, what you need is some guy from wherever (overseas in this case) who is so ambitious that he creates his own business and hires you.

If he's that good why didn't he create the business in his own country where he knows the language and culture? Tell you why, his home economy is fucked.

[mistermack]

If you are poor and unskilled, what you need is some guy from wherever (overseas in this case) who is so ambitious that he creates his own business and hires you.

I did say don't talk stupid, but you just ignored me.

The overseas guy will just ship in his unskilled brothers, sisters and cousins, and hire them. Failing that, he will hire someone who speaks his own language, and pay them less than the minimum wage.
And you will have less chance than ever.
Because he will put the local entrepreneurs out of business, people who might have hired you.

[Blind groper]

Mistermack

I do not claim great expertise in this field, but I did read the research report. We are not talking of something that the researchers think, in theory, should happen. We are talking of things that the researchers investigated and found did, in reality, actually happen. Whether you, I, or Joe Bloggs think it makes sense is irrelevant. Because it did happen.

[mistermack]

Mistermack

I do not claim great expertise in this field, but I did read the research report. We are not talking of something that the researchers think, in theory, should happen. We are talking of things that the researchers investigated and found did, in reality, actually happen. Whether you, I, or Joe Bloggs think it makes sense is irrelevant. Because it did happen.

Don't read the Bible then, if you are that gullible.

[cronus]

Mistermack

I do not claim great expertise in this field, but I did read the research report. We are not talking of something that the researchers think, in theory, should happen. We are talking of things that the researchers investigated and found did, in reality, actually happen. Whether you, I, or Joe Bloggs think it makes sense is irrelevant. Because it did happen.

Don't read the Bible then, if you are that gullible.

Too late...

[Seth]

If you are poor and unskilled, what you need is some guy from wherever (overseas in this case) who is so ambitious that he creates his own business and hires you.

What's this? Supporting the free-market theory of economics? I thought you believed that all good things are created and provided by the government, not private entrepreneurism.

I'm shocked!

[laklak]

Me too. Damn BG, you been reading Atlas Shrugged?

[JimC]

BG, like the majority of the forum including myself, has made it clear in many posts that free enterprise is a vital part of any modern economy, given a range of appropriate constraints. There will always be argument about the nature and extent of those government-imposed constraints, but any government that makes them so tight that the economy suffocates, or so loose that the robber barons run rampant will be risking their next election.

[Seth]

BG, like the majority of the forum including myself, has made it clear in many posts that free enterprise is a vital part of any modern economy, given a range of appropriate constraints. There will always be argument about the nature and extent of those government-imposed constraints, but any government that makes them so tight that the economy suffocates, or so loose that the robber barons run rampant will be risking their next election.

Pretty fricking broad brush you paint with there Jim.

The usual argument about government is not a binary choice between smothering regulation or no regulation, as many here like to claim, it's that government only occasionally constrains itself only to regulating robber barons and often suffocates the economy (and the people) in the name of social engineering that is usually politically motivated. This is true of both flavors of government, left and right. The primary fault of all government is that government, as a rule, quickly becomes interested more in perpetuating itself and it's ability to exercise power and control than in protecting the right and freedoms of the citizenry.

This is because, of course, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

And that is precisely why our Founders created our founding document, the Constitution, as a charter of negative liberties, which is to say that the Constitution does not enumerate a complete list of the liberties that citizens are granted by the government, it presumes a priori that citizens enjoy all liberties except those that may be constrained by the government as specified in the Constitution, which quite explicitly says that the government may only exercise those powers that are enumerated in the Constitution, and no other powers whatsoever, and that government's exercise of those powers is both subject to the consent of the governed and are revokable at the will of the people.

Your statement is so vague and broad that it is meaningless. Of course there is a balance to be struck, but the important question is where, exactly, that balance properly lies. All you did was announce that a balance must be struck without providing a scintilla of argument as to where that point lies and where the boundaries of government power are.

[JimC]

My only real intent was to make the point that we are not the straw man "socialists" of your imagination, but perfectly happy to have free enterprise as a major component of a mixed economy. Most modern western democracies are mixed economies, and seem to work as well as anything can, in terms of keeping the majority reasonably satisfied.

[cronus]

Stashing a few immigrants around the place as slaves does make me feel wealthier. Can't say I want them too close but the cost of frozen veg is lower than it has been in years and that leaves me with more to spend on other things.

[Blind groper]

As I have said before, I am neither libertarian nor socialist. Or, put another way, I am both. I believe in free enterprise, and in government controls. I believe in personal liberty, and in helping those less fortunate via government and taxes. Or else, you could say I believe in balance, not extremism.

[cronus]

As I have said before, I am neither libertarian nor socialist. Or, put another way, I am both. I believe in free enterprise, and in government controls. I believe in personal liberty, and in helping those less fortunate via government and taxes. Or else, you could say I believe in balance, not extremism.

One of those extreme middle ground types. Pleasing everyone and in so doing pleasing no one.

[Blind groper]

Not really.

I support the approach carried out by the most successful nations on the planet in terms of maximum welfare for their citizens. This includes Scandinavian nations, and my own country. New Zealand dropped this year by one point from least corrupt nation to second least, with Denmark taking top spot. The USA, that bastion of libertarianism, is number 19, which puts it at the bottom of the list for western nations.

[cronus]

Not really.

I support the approach carried out by the most successful nations on the planet in terms of maximum welfare for their citizens. This includes Scandinavian nations, and my own country. New Zealand dropped this year by one point from least corrupt nation to second least, with Denmark taking top spot. The USA, that bastion of libertarianism, is number 19, which puts it at the bottom of the list for western nations.

Good to see you have it sorted. Always blame America and make yourself feel better.