Yes. Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman. I recommend all his books in general. He's probably one of the best and most honest NT biblical scholars out there (he's agnostic). He's the go-to guy when new scrolls (like the recent Gospel of Judas) are found.Svartalf wrote:Interesting tidbit, do you remember where you found it?
What is faith? Really?
Re: What is faith? Really?
Libertarianism: The belief that out of all the terrible things governments can do, helping people is the absolute worst.
Re: What is faith? Really?
And you know that Jesus used that Greek word how, exactly?Animavore wrote: The reason Nicodemus makes this mistake is because in Greek there is a play on words. The Greek word anothen means 'from above' and 'born again' and it is this first usage that Jesus uses. Nicodemus mistakes it for the second meaning.
The problem is if this conversation happened it would've happened in Aramaic or even Hebrew where such a mistake is impossible. Ergo this coversation could never have happened. Conversely, Born Again Christianity is based on a lie
If Jesus used Aramaic or Hebrew there would be no ambiguity and Jesus would have meant exactly what he said.
You're straining at gnats in you obsession with deriding something that according to your religion you don't believe in.
Why is that?
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
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Re: What is faith? Really?
Having a view about Christianity is contingent on belief now? 

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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Details on how to do that can be found here.
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
Re: What is faith? Really?
No, having a belief about anything may qualify as the practice of religion if that belief and practice meet any of the definitions of "religion," which it appears to me is the case with Animavore.Brian Peacock wrote:Having a view about Christianity is contingent on belief now?
Clearly the assertions made in the post demonstrate a belief not founded in logic, reason or fact, and the fervor with which they were made indicates that this is "something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience", which is one of the dictionary definitions of "religion."
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
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Re: What is faith? Really?
I believe that all three Book religion nebulae are a bunch of absurdities.
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Re: What is faith? Really?
I tell you what I believe - I believe you're taking the piss. That's a broad definition of religion for sure, one so broad in fact that any considered act becomes a religious practice and makes everyone an autotheist at least. Of course, the faithful have always insisted that religion is a necessary pre-condition to virtue, "You can't be good without a godling Timmy", so that's hardly surprising, but now it seems just taking an ethical view is a religion in and of itself.Seth wrote:No, having a belief about anything may qualify as the practice of religion if that belief and practice meet any of the definitions of "religion," which it appears to me is the case with Animavore.Brian Peacock wrote:Having a view about Christianity is contingent on belief now?
Clearly the assertions made in the post demonstrate a belief not founded in logic, reason or fact, and the fervor with which they were made indicates that this is "something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience", which is one of the dictionary definitions of "religion."
Bonkers. Why do we have to measure ourselves against a religious yardstick or declare the very fact of our existence a religious act?
Throwing in words like 'fact', 'reason', and 'logic', and saying someone is 'fervent', doesn't just make what you said factual, reasonable, or logical. It doesn't mean anyone should pay special attention to your analysis of a random stranger on the internet either. I'd be happy to discuss this, but If you'd like me to take this seriously I'd be grateful if you could at least show your working out.
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: What is faith? Really?
Congratulations, you have just become a Pope!Svartalf wrote:I believe that all three Book religion nebulae are a bunch of absurdities.
Strum my holy banjo!
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: What is faith? Really?
I prefer playing the harp, and hate dressing in white
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Re: What is faith? Really?
You speak as if absurdity is a bad thing.Svartalf wrote:I believe that all three Book religion nebulae are a bunch of absurdities.
If this is so, explain stinky cheese.
I call bullshit - Alfred E Einstein
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Re: What is faith? Really?
It doesn't taste like it smells
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Re: What is faith? Really?
And would you say that you are fervent about that?


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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: What is faith? Really?
I prefer the milder ones, being a moderate in many things. 

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Re: What is faith? Really?
A religion of cheese can be the only true faith.
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: What is faith? Really?
Theophagy? again?
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Re: What is faith? Really?
Not even a little tiny bit. I'm dead serious. It is my observation that almost all self-professed Atheists I've ever encountered present their anti-theist arguments as both a matter of faith and as a fervent and deeply-held personal set of beliefs and practices that are no more based in science, logic or reason than any other irrational set of beliefs and practices. That is why sites like RDF and RatSkep even exist. The predominant article of faith I see pervading the vast majority of such dialog consists of attacks on religion that are every bit as foaming-at-the-mouth rabidly anti-theist as any of the rabidly foaming-at-the-mouth anti-atheist/fundamentalist theistic religious rhetoric.Brian Peacock wrote:I tell you what I believe - I believe you're taking the piss.Seth wrote:No, having a belief about anything may qualify as the practice of religion if that belief and practice meet any of the definitions of "religion," which it appears to me is the case with Animavore.Brian Peacock wrote:Having a view about Christianity is contingent on belief now?
Clearly the assertions made in the post demonstrate a belief not founded in logic, reason or fact, and the fervor with which they were made indicates that this is "something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience", which is one of the dictionary definitions of "religion."
That's a broad definition of religion for sure, one so broad in fact that any considered act becomes a religious practice and makes everyone an autotheist at least.
You fail to distinguish between theism and religion. We're talking about religion here, not theism.
Once again you conflate religion and theism inappropriately. Theism is a particular subset of WHAT one believes and practices. Religion describes HOW people undertake a particular set of beliefs or practices.Of course, the faithful have always insisted that religion is a necessary pre-condition to virtue, "You can't be good without a godling Timmy", so that's hardly surprising, but now it seems just taking an ethical view is a religion in and of itself.
Because that's the definition of religion, good sir.
Bonkers. Why do we have to measure ourselves against a religious yardstick or declare the very fact of our existence a religious act?
I believe I just did. The failure to distinguish logically and rationally between theism and religion, and the constant practice of conflating and confusing the two things is the root of your error.Throwing in words like 'fact', 'reason', and 'logic', and saying someone is 'fervent', doesn't just make what you said factual, reasonable, or logical. It doesn't mean anyone should pay special attention to your analysis of a random stranger on the internet either. I'd be happy to discuss this, but If you'd like me to take this seriously I'd be grateful if you could at least show your working out.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
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