What is faith? Really?

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MrJonno
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Re: What is faith? Really?

Post by MrJonno » Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:54 pm

Everybody else who professes the faith of Atheism has made a conscious decision to reject the proposition that God(s) exist and therefore are, if we use your definition (arguendo), non-theists or most commonly anti-theists, usually virulently s
Nope I've consciously rejected the idea of Father Christmas due to overwhelming evidence but I certainly did have that view at one point, I've certainly never rejected the proposition that god exists because that was the default position that I and everyone else has born with. I've also never rejected the idea that I'm Napoleon either as its never occurred to me that I was

However I certainly am anti-christian but this death cult is well almost dead in anywhere in civilized world, , its dying not because of anything atheists have done politically but simply not dying from unpleasant diseases ie science and going down the pub/playing football on a Sunday is a lot more fun than going to church
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Re: What is faith? Really?

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:17 am

Seth wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:You're a Sethist. Doesn't mean you can't be an atheist. You are either an atheist, an agnostic, or a theist. That's the full set. A Sethist might fall within there somewhere, but it can't fall outside of that set. So which of those three are you??
None of the above.

I don't believe God exists, but I also don't believe God doesn't exist, and I don't believe that we can never know whether God exists or not.
So you are an agnostic. You are exactly the same as most atheists in two out of three criteria (although, the last one is more of a theoretical point). The only difference is that most atheists choose to believe that god doesn't exist, as this is the rational and pragmatic position given the evidence available to us.
As a Tolerist™, I believe that when mankind's knowledge of the universe is complete and perfect, we will then know whether or not God exists.
I suspect that is the case too, although I think it might be very hard to get complete and perfect knowledge of the universe. Although, having said that, even if we did have perfect knowledge of the universe, it's not guaranteed that we would know if there was an external or prior creator, as we might not be able to detect them. That is, a deist God might still be possible, but a theist God would definitely be ruled out.
Last edited by pErvinalia on Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is faith? Really?

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:19 am

Seth wrote:
MrJonno wrote:Well a non-theist is someone who is not (non=latin) a theist , and a theist is someone who believes in god. Therefore Seth is someone who does not believe in god

An atheist is someone without a believe in god, a non-theist actually implies some conscious intent basically a non-theist is an militant atheist!
A distinction without a difference.

The only actual "atheists" are a) children too young to understand the concepts; b) persons with mental disabilities so severe that they cannot understand the concepts; and c) persons who have never, in any manner whatsoever, been exposed to the concept of God or deities.

Everybody else who professes the faith of Atheism has made a conscious decision to reject the proposition that God(s) exist and therefore are, if we use your definition (arguendo), non-theists or most commonly anti-theists, usually virulently so.
Doesn't it worry you (of course it doesn't) that you present the same idiotic misunderstandings of atheism as radical Christians do?? Atheists do not claim that there is no God. Only a very tiny number of them would claim that, and they would be fundamentally illogical.
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Re: What is faith? Really?

Post by MrJonno » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:14 am

You are forgetting Seth want's to be a radical christian its the only way you can fit in the white religious libertarian nuts, he just has to persuade him that not having a belief in god doesnt make him an atheist as atheist muslim socialists are what are trying to take away his freedom
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Re: What is faith? Really?

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:20 am

:hehe:
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Re: What is faith? Really?

Post by Seth » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:15 pm

rEvolutionist wrote:
Seth wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:You're a Sethist. Doesn't mean you can't be an atheist. You are either an atheist, an agnostic, or a theist. That's the full set. A Sethist might fall within there somewhere, but it can't fall outside of that set. So which of those three are you??
None of the above.

I don't believe God exists, but I also don't believe God doesn't exist, and I don't believe that we can never know whether God exists or not.
So you are an agnostic.
Nope.
ag·nos·tic
[ ag nóstik ]

somebody denying God's existence is provable: somebody who believes that it is impossible to know whether or not God exists
You are exactly the same as most atheists in two out of three criteria (although, the last one is more of a theoretical point). The only difference is that most atheists choose to believe that god doesn't exist, as this is the rational and pragmatic position given the evidence available to us.
Thanks for proving that you are an Atheist, not an atheist. Religion is fun, isn't it?
As a Tolerist™, I believe that when mankind's knowledge of the universe is complete and perfect, we will then know whether or not God exists.
I suspect that is the case too, although I think it might be very hard to get complete and perfect knowledge of the universe. Although, having said that, even if we did have perfect knowledge of the universe, it's not guaranteed that we would know if there was an external or prior creator, as we might not be able to detect them. That is, a deist God might still be possible, but a theist God would definitely be ruled out.
If you do not know, then your knowledge is not perfect. If your knowledge is perfect, you will know, perforce.
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Re: What is faith? Really?

Post by Seth » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:17 pm

rEvolutionist wrote:
Seth wrote:
MrJonno wrote:Well a non-theist is someone who is not (non=latin) a theist , and a theist is someone who believes in god. Therefore Seth is someone who does not believe in god

An atheist is someone without a believe in god, a non-theist actually implies some conscious intent basically a non-theist is an militant atheist!
A distinction without a difference.

The only actual "atheists" are a) children too young to understand the concepts; b) persons with mental disabilities so severe that they cannot understand the concepts; and c) persons who have never, in any manner whatsoever, been exposed to the concept of God or deities.

Everybody else who professes the faith of Atheism has made a conscious decision to reject the proposition that God(s) exist and therefore are, if we use your definition (arguendo), non-theists or most commonly anti-theists, usually virulently so.
Doesn't it worry you (of course it doesn't) that you present the same idiotic misunderstandings of atheism as radical Christians do?? Atheists do not claim that there is no God. Only a very tiny number of them would claim that, and they would be fundamentally illogical.
Really? So what about the guy who wrote this?
The only difference is that most atheists choose to believe that god doesn't exist, as this is the rational and pragmatic position given the evidence available to us.
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"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: What is faith? Really?

Post by JimC » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:26 pm

The last quote is my position, with this change in words:

"The only difference is that most atheists choose operate under the reasonable assumption that god doesn't exist, as this is the rational and pragmatic position given the evidence available to us."
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Re: What is faith? Really?

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:57 am

Seth wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:
Seth wrote:
MrJonno wrote:Well a non-theist is someone who is not (non=latin) a theist , and a theist is someone who believes in god. Therefore Seth is someone who does not believe in god

An atheist is someone without a believe in god, a non-theist actually implies some conscious intent basically a non-theist is an militant atheist!
A distinction without a difference.

The only actual "atheists" are a) children too young to understand the concepts; b) persons with mental disabilities so severe that they cannot understand the concepts; and c) persons who have never, in any manner whatsoever, been exposed to the concept of God or deities.

Everybody else who professes the faith of Atheism has made a conscious decision to reject the proposition that God(s) exist and therefore are, if we use your definition (arguendo), non-theists or most commonly anti-theists, usually virulently so.
Doesn't it worry you (of course it doesn't) that you present the same idiotic misunderstandings of atheism as radical Christians do?? Atheists do not claim that there is no God. Only a very tiny number of them would claim that, and they would be fundamentally illogical.
Really? So what about the guy who wrote this?
The only difference is that most atheists choose to believe that god doesn't exist, as this is the rational and pragmatic position given the evidence available to us.
Christ, go back to primary school and learn how to read English. :fp:
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Re: What is faith? Really?

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:01 am

Seth wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:
Seth wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:You're a Sethist. Doesn't mean you can't be an atheist. You are either an atheist, an agnostic, or a theist. That's the full set. A Sethist might fall within there somewhere, but it can't fall outside of that set. So which of those three are you??
None of the above.

I don't believe God exists, but I also don't believe God doesn't exist, and I don't believe that we can never know whether God exists or not.
So you are an agnostic.
Nope.
ag·nos·tic
[ ag nóstik ]

somebody denying God's existence is provable: somebody who believes that it is impossible to know whether or not God exists
Fair enough. You're an atheist then. Welcome to the club.
You are exactly the same as most atheists in two out of three criteria (although, the last one is more of a theoretical point). The only difference is that most atheists choose to believe that god doesn't exist, as this is the rational and pragmatic position given the evidence available to us.
Thanks for proving that you are an Atheist, not an atheist. Religion is fun, isn't it?
Being illiterate is fun for you, apparently. That is an atheist and a rationalist. Nothing whatsoever religious about it.
As a Tolerist™, I believe that when mankind's knowledge of the universe is complete and perfect, we will then know whether or not God exists.
I suspect that is the case too, although I think it might be very hard to get complete and perfect knowledge of the universe. Although, having said that, even if we did have perfect knowledge of the universe, it's not guaranteed that we would know if there was an external or prior creator, as we might not be able to detect them. That is, a deist God might still be possible, but a theist God would definitely be ruled out.
If you do not know, then your knowledge is not perfect. If your knowledge is perfect, you will know, perforce.
[/quote][/quote]

Logic fail. Yet again. Don't you get tired of bringing forth idiocies? Why must a prior creator to the universe be discoverable from within the universe? You could have perfect knowledge of our simulation's rules, but not be aware that it is a simulation.
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Re: What is faith? Really?

Post by MrJonno » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:30 am

The only difference is that most atheists choose to believe that god doesn't exist
I've certainly never chosen to believe that god doesn't exist.

It's never even occurred to me that there might be a god, it is like saying why have you chosen not to think you are the reincarnation of Napoleon or Julius Caesar.

I suppose a Roman emperor could have been reincarnated as myself but there doesn't seem any reason to think so
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Re: What is faith? Really?

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:15 am

It's only in the face of religious bollocks in society (and on an inter-personal level) that we need to actually bother taking a position on it. If we didn't constantly have people and society stuffing religious crap down our throats, we wouldn't need to waste time on explaining that there is no evidence for God and therefore we don't believe in it.
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Re: What is faith? Really?

Post by Hermit » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:46 am

rEvolutionist wrote:...people and society stuffing religious crap down our throats...
In a lolbertardian society this would not happen because in a lolbertardian society everybody would know that mere words do not equal stuffing religious crap down throats. It's just that simple, you moronic Marxist Atheist sheeple. Words have no power at all. That's why I don't bother with trying to convince anybody with words. Ever. We lolbertardians have well trained and equipped militias for that purpose, and stand your ground legislation.
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Re: What is faith? Really?

Post by MrJonno » Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:22 pm

In Libby world not believing in god wouldn't make you an atheist.

Does that make Ayn Rand a christian fundamentalist as she definitely didnt believe in god
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Re: What is faith? Really?

Post by mistermack » Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:12 pm

Everyone seems to have a different feeling for the word ''believe'', and consequently the word ''faith''.

That seems to be much of the problem. I've always thought that if you believe something, you are sure that it's right. But I was surprised to find that other people don't share that understanding of the word.

I actually believe very little, on my own definition. But other people seem happy to believe stuff, but are actually just going on a better than fifty fifty likelihood of it being right.
I suppose it's a question of degree. I ''believe'' that there is no gigantic pink unicorn, circulating the Sun.
Even though I can't prove it, and I agree that it's not impossible. So I'm in the same position as others, who believe much less black and white things.

Do I believe that there is no god? I'm not sure that I would say that. I would just say that the odds in my opinion are billions to one against.
And a god that ''sent his son to be born of a virgin'' ? Thousands and thousands of billions to one against.
So I believe in there being no god, to roughly the same extent as there being no pink unicorn.

Actually, some kind of creator I would put as more likely than the pink unicorn. Some sort of Alien being, constructing the big bang isn't all that outlandish. I wouldn't call it a god though.

To qualify as a god, it would have to fall in line with the stories about it having an interest or influence on earthly matters, and I'm back in the thousands of billions-to-one against on that one.
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