What is faith? Really?

[Seth]

Seth wrote:

because there is evidence. Thousands of years of evidence. Hundreds of thousands or billions of individual observations of evidence over the centuries. Carefully documented evidence.

A bald statement that means absolutely nothing. The evidence is, and always has been, totally subjective.

Evidence of what? of the fact that any deity that might exist is the greatest douchecanoe in creation?

He/she/it may well be exactly that, but that has nothing whatever to do with the claim that he/she/it does not exist.

[Seth]

Seth wrote:

because there is evidence. Thousands of years of evidence. Hundreds of thousands or billions of individual observations of evidence over the centuries. Carefully documented evidence.

A bald statement that means absolutely nothing. The evidence is, and always has been, totally subjective.

Prove it. Your claim, your burden of proof.

No. Their claim, their burden of evidence.

He doesn't seem to understand the concept of 'burden of proof'. Doesn't appear to understand logical reasoning and science. Strange fellow to find on a rationalist forum.

I understand it better than you do. When you make the claim "X does not exist" then the burden of proof is on you to prove that claim. The wise thing to do is not to claim something doesn't exist unless you have such proofs. Since you have no evidence for or against the existence of God other than your skepticism and ignorance the only thing you can rationally say is "I don't know whether God exists or not."

[JimC]

Seth wrote:

because there is evidence. Thousands of years of evidence. Hundreds of thousands or billions of individual observations of evidence over the centuries. Carefully documented evidence.

A bald statement that means absolutely nothing. The evidence is, and always has been, totally subjective.

Prove it. Your claim, your burden of proof.

No. Their claim, their burden of evidence.

Nope, your claim, your burden.

If you say "the evidence for the Big Bang theory is, and always has been, totally subjective" it is YOU who is making a claim of a statement of fact, and therefore the burden is on you to prove your claim.

If I made such a claim, I would soon be flooded with a vast array of objective measurements from many different sources that would quickly make my statement a nonsense. It wouldn't have to be my burden to prove at all - the entire scientific community would soon show that my claim was mendacious nonsense...

I notice that, when I say that evidence for god is totally subjective, I'm not flooded with large amounts of objective measurements and data to prove me wrong. Instead, there are pathetic appeals to the primacy of individual experience and personal intuition...

I wonder why the religious community cannot also provide any real riposte, with its own flood of solid evidence?

Oh that's right, there is none...

[Seth]

If I made such a claim, I would soon be flooded with a vast array of objective measurements from many different sources that would quickly make my statement a nonsense. It wouldn't have to be my burden to prove at all - the entire scientific community would soon show that my claim was mendacious nonsense...

I notice that, when I say that evidence for god is totally subjective, I'm not flooded with large amounts of objective measurements and data to prove me wrong. Instead, there are pathetic appeals to the primacy of individual experience and personal intuition...

I wonder why the religious community cannot also provide any real riposte, with its own flood of solid evidence?

Oh that's right, there is none...

Just because some people choose to do your homework for you doesn't mean anyone is obliged to do so. It's your place to prove your claim, now do so or recant.

[The_Metatron]

Does little Seth think he is victorious with his "prove there is no god" game? Here you go, Seth:

The existence of your god is a truth claim. You are claiming it. You either support that claim or recant it.

Having seen no evidence yet presented to support your truth claim, I will live my life as if it is not the truth. That is, as if your god does not exist. I don't even need to bother to claim it doesn't exist. That doesn't even matter.

You want to believe magic man skycunt exists? Fine. Fill your boots. You want me to think magic man skycunt exists? You're going to have to demonstrate it.

[JimC]

Does little Seth think he is victorious with his "prove there is no god" game? Here you go, Seth:

The existence of your god is a truth claim. You are claiming it. You either support that claim or recant it.

Having seen no evidence yet presented to support your truth claim, I will live my life as if it is not the truth. That is, as if your god does not exist. I don't even need to bother to claim it doesn't exist. That doesn't even matter.

You want to believe magic man skycunt exists? Fine. Fill your boots. You want me to think magic man skycunt exists? You're going to have to demonstrate it.

Exactly.

And it's worth considering what either side thinks the consequences are for belief or non-belief.

For me, with my view that there is no sky fairy, the fate of believers after death is no more or no less than my own - the big sleep of non-existence.

For believers, even the moderate version, my non-belief guarantees me an eternity of hell.

The difference in perspective is just one of the many reasons why I'm glad to be on the atheist side of the fence.

[Seth]

Does little Seth think he is victorious with his "prove there is no god" game? Here you go, Seth:

The existence of your god is a truth claim. You are claiming it. You either support that claim or recant it.

Er, tiny Metatron, I've never made that claim. Ever.

Having seen no evidence yet presented to support your truth claim, I will live my life as if it is not the truth. That is, as if your god does not exist. I don't even need to bother to claim it doesn't exist. That doesn't even matter.

You want to believe magic man skycunt exists? Fine. Fill your boots. You want me to think magic man skycunt exists? You're going to have to demonstrate it.

What makes you think that anyone cares what you think? I know I don't. I'm just holding you Atheists to your own silly philosophical standards, which you universally and consistently fail to adhere to. It's my way of demonstrating what hypocritical small-minded asses Atheists are.

[Seth]

Does little Seth think he is victorious with his "prove there is no god" game? Here you go, Seth:

The existence of your god is a truth claim. You are claiming it. You either support that claim or recant it.

Having seen no evidence yet presented to support your truth claim, I will live my life as if it is not the truth. That is, as if your god does not exist. I don't even need to bother to claim it doesn't exist. That doesn't even matter.

You want to believe magic man skycunt exists? Fine. Fill your boots. You want me to think magic man skycunt exists? You're going to have to demonstrate it.

Exactly.

And it's worth considering what either side thinks the consequences are for belief or non-belief.

For me, with my view that there is no sky fairy, the fate of believers after death is no more or no less than my own - the big sleep of non-existence.

For believers, even the moderate version, my non-belief guarantees me an eternity of hell.

The difference in perspective is just one of the many reasons why I'm glad to be on the atheist side of the fence.

So why do you spend so much time and effort denigrating theists if you really don't care? Quite obviously you do care, deeply, about the possible existence of God, I suspect because if the theists are right, you're really, really fucked.

People who really don't care about or hold no opinion about something don't spend half their lives bitching about it and denigrating others on the internet.

[pErvinalia]

Even simple mathematics is too much for Seth...

[The_Metatron]

Trigger Warning!!!1! :

Does little Seth think he is victorious with his "prove there is no god" game? Here you go, Seth:

The existence of your god is a truth claim. You are claiming it. You either support that claim or recant it.

Er, tiny Metatron, I've never made that claim. Ever.

Having seen no evidence yet presented to support your truth claim, I will live my life as if it is not the truth. That is, as if your god does not exist. I don't even need to bother to claim it doesn't exist. That doesn't even matter.

You want to believe magic man skycunt exists? Fine. Fill your boots. You want me to think magic man skycunt exists? You're going to have to demonstrate it.

What makes you think that anyone cares what you think? I know I don't. I'm just holding you Atheists to your own silly philosophical standards, which you universally and consistently fail to adhere to.

It's my way of demonstrating what hypocritical small-minded asses Atheists are.

No, no. It's your way of feebly trying to demonstrate something. You must be quite accustomed to failure at this point in your life.

[Hermit]

It's my way of demonstrating what hypocritical small-minded asses Atheists are.

No, no. It's your way of feebly trying to demonstrate something. You must be quite accustomed to failure at this point in your life.

D-Kheads never fail, Metatron.

[Seth]

Trigger Warning!!!1! :

Does little Seth think he is victorious with his "prove there is no god" game? Here you go, Seth:

The existence of your god is a truth claim. You are claiming it. You either support that claim or recant it.

Er, tiny Metatron, I've never made that claim. Ever.

Having seen no evidence yet presented to support your truth claim, I will live my life as if it is not the truth. That is, as if your god does not exist. I don't even need to bother to claim it doesn't exist. That doesn't even matter.

You want to believe magic man skycunt exists? Fine. Fill your boots. You want me to think magic man skycunt exists? You're going to have to demonstrate it.

What makes you think that anyone cares what you think? I know I don't. I'm just holding you Atheists to your own silly philosophical standards, which you universally and consistently fail to adhere to.

It's my way of demonstrating what hypocritical small-minded asses Atheists are.

No, no. It's your way of feebly trying to demonstrate something. You must be quite accustomed to failure at this point in your life.

No, no. It's your feeble intellect misunderstanding things that are beyond your ken. Go back to fingerpainting with your feces.

[MrJonno]

So why do you spend so much time and effort denigrating theists if you really don't care?

Because christianity exists even if god doesnt for the moment through we are well on the way to exterminating it as an ideology in the Western world (the US is only a generation or two behind Europe)

Being an atheist doesnt mean you are anti-christian but this one sure is. Then again I'm pretty sure you are too but your freak libby comrades would disown you if they ever found out you were atheist

[JimC]

Seth wrote:

So why do you spend so much time and effort denigrating theists if you really don't care?

Clarification time. Like many on the forum, a fair few of my posts argue against a theist position, essentially saying that there is no need to postulate a god of any sort, either to explain the nature of the universe or to bring meaning to a human existence. This does not involve a futile attempt to logically prove that a supernatural being does not exist, but simply that we are perfectly happy to live our lives under that assumption.

As for denigrating theists, that is far from the mark. Someone's individual faith is their own business, up and until they start applying their evidence-free position to the rest of us. Every time a theist tries to apply the weird rules of their personal sky fairy universally, outside their own life and outside their church, they will get a robust argument from me, basically saying keep your fucking god out of my life, and out of any attempt to model the universe - you can let the grown-ups do that by the scientific method.

[Seth]

So why do you spend so much time and effort denigrating theists if you really don't care?

Because christianity exists even if god doesnt for the moment through we are well on the way to exterminating it as an ideology in the Western world (the US is only a generation or two behind Europe)

Being an atheist doesnt mean you are anti-christian but this one sure is. Then again I'm pretty sure you are too but your freak libby comrades would disown you if they ever found out you were atheist

That's why I'm not an Atheist, or an atheist, and all my friends know exactly where I stand with respect to religion.

But thanks for admitting your mindless bigotry, as if anyone needed any confirmation.