Socialised Medicine Yaaaaaaaayyyy

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Svartalf
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Re: Socialised Medicine Yaaaaaaaayyyy

Post by Svartalf » Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:57 pm

especially since the neanderthals actually had a bigger brain than we have... it's surmised they disappeared because the babies kept killing the mothers and died of not being able to get out.
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Re: Socialised Medicine Yaaaaaaaayyyy

Post by mistermack » Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:07 pm

Svartalf wrote:especially since the neanderthals actually had a bigger brain than we have... it's surmised they disappeared because the babies kept killing the mothers and died of not being able to get out.
No, that couldn't happen. Their brains would never have reached that size, if that was happening.
Neanderthals had bigger brains, but they were longer, front to back, and so they were no wider going through the birth canal.
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Re: Socialised Medicine Yaaaaaaaayyyy

Post by Seth » Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:14 pm

mistermack wrote: No, that couldn't happen. Their brains would never have reached that size, if that was happening.
Neanderthals had bigger brains, but they were longer, front to back, and so they were no wider going through the birth canal.
What proof do you have that their brains were bigger? Skull size? Now you need to prove that skull size is universally related to brain organ size, without exception. In which case I'll refer you to any of a large number of dinosaurs. The only thing you can accurately say is that Neanderthal's brain CASE was larger than present-day humans. You can say nothing whatever about the size of the brain, or, more importantly, the complexity and cognitive power of that brain as related to it's mass and volume, other than raw speculation.

"Pea sized" is a reference to intellect, not mass or volume.

Everybody except you knows that, pea-brain.
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Re: Socialised Medicine Yaaaaaaaayyyy

Post by Svartalf » Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:16 pm

Actually, WE are reaching that stage, only we have better medicine so we can perform c sections and episiotomies if that's needed...
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Re: Socialised Medicine Yaaaaaaaayyyy

Post by Seth » Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:19 pm

Svartalf wrote:Actually, WE are reaching that stage, only we have better medicine so we can perform c sections and episiotomies if that's needed...
I've said for some time that intelligence may only be a positive survival trait up to a certain level. After that it may become a negative one. The question is whether we have already passed the tipping point and are doomed to extinction by intelligence.

The existence of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons points towards that fate.
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Re: Socialised Medicine Yaaaaaaaayyyy

Post by SnowLeopard » Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:51 pm

Seth wrote:
mistermack wrote: No, that couldn't happen. Their brains would never have reached that size, if that was happening.
Neanderthals had bigger brains, but they were longer, front to back, and so they were no wider going through the birth canal.
What proof do you have that their brains were bigger? Skull size? Now you need to prove that skull size is universally related to brain organ size, without exception. In which case I'll refer you to any of a large number of dinosaurs. The only thing you can accurately say is that Neanderthal's brain CASE was larger than present-day humans. You can say nothing whatever about the size of the brain, or, more importantly, the complexity and cognitive power of that brain as related to it's mass and volume, other than raw speculation.

"Pea sized" is a reference to intellect, not mass or volume.

Everybody except you knows that, pea-brain.
Are you on drugs? Seriously. Do you hear the shit coming out of your mouth.

The skull size is irrelevant, however the gap in side the skull that houses the brain has a little bit to do with the size of the actual brain. Or do you think that an animal with a brain cavity the size of a watermelon would have a physical brain the size of a grape. Just rattling around in there, bumping in to the sides of the skull.

Yet again Seth trying to distort the fabric of reality around his argument without having so much as a finger nails grasp on the ledge of reason.
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Re: Socialised Medicine Yaaaaaaaayyyy

Post by JimC » Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:20 pm

The volume of the cranial cavity is the volume of the brain.

Full stop.

The real interest, for those who actually understand the field, is that cognitive capacity and brain size are not always directly correlated; neural organisation is a very significant factor, and difficult to infer from skeletal remains.
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Re: Socialised Medicine Yaaaaaaaayyyy

Post by MrJonno » Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:07 pm

I've said for some time that intelligence may only be a positive survival trait up to a certain level. After that it may become a negative one. The question is whether we have already passed the tipping point and are doomed to extinction by intelligence.
Don't worry Seth if you go extinct it won't be due to excess intelligence
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Re: Socialised Medicine Yaaaaaaaayyyy

Post by mistermack » Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:12 am

Seth wrote:
Svartalf wrote:Actually, WE are reaching that stage, only we have better medicine so we can perform c sections and episiotomies if that's needed...
I've said for some time that intelligence may only be a positive survival trait up to a certain level. After that it may become a negative one. The question is whether we have already passed the tipping point and are doomed to extinction by intelligence.

The existence of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons points towards that fate.
Jeepers, intelligence isn't your strong subject, is it ?
Firstly, there are now seven billion of us. That doesn't point to a trend towards extinction.
You are talking about a theoretical possibility, not an actual trend.

But also, that threat is due to technology, not intelligence. Do you not get the difference?
Stone age men had the same intelligence as modern man. The same level of intelligence as today helped them to survive and multiply. There's nothing about intelligence that is a negative survival trait.
It's only technology that could pose that threat.

And actually, technology also has the possibility to prevent extinction of the species, by virus or meteorite impact, or other disasters that a less advanced species couldn't hope to cope with.
I would say that that hugely outweighs the theoretical possibility of extinction through our own actions.
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Re: Socialised Medicine Yaaaaaaaayyyy

Post by Seth » Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:32 am

SnowLeopard wrote:
Seth wrote:
mistermack wrote: No, that couldn't happen. Their brains would never have reached that size, if that was happening.
Neanderthals had bigger brains, but they were longer, front to back, and so they were no wider going through the birth canal.
What proof do you have that their brains were bigger? Skull size? Now you need to prove that skull size is universally related to brain organ size, without exception. In which case I'll refer you to any of a large number of dinosaurs. The only thing you can accurately say is that Neanderthal's brain CASE was larger than present-day humans. You can say nothing whatever about the size of the brain, or, more importantly, the complexity and cognitive power of that brain as related to it's mass and volume, other than raw speculation.

"Pea sized" is a reference to intellect, not mass or volume.

Everybody except you knows that, pea-brain.
Are you on drugs? Seriously. Do you hear the shit coming out of your mouth.

The skull size is irrelevant, however the gap in side the skull that houses the brain has a little bit to do with the size of the actual brain. Or do you think that an animal with a brain cavity the size of a watermelon would have a physical brain the size of a grape. Just rattling around in there, bumping in to the sides of the skull.

Yet again Seth trying to distort the fabric of reality around his argument without having so much as a finger nails grasp on the ledge of reason.
There's plenty of homo sapien fathead out there to prove that just because it looks like a brain doesn't mean it functions like a brain. This repartee is proof of that.
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"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

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Re: Socialised Medicine Yaaaaaaaayyyy

Post by Seth » Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:34 am

JimC wrote:The volume of the cranial cavity is the volume of the brain.

Full stop.
Depends on how you define "brain" I suppose. There's quite a bit of empty space in the human brain. More in some than others.... :biggrin:
The real interest, for those who actually understand the field, is that cognitive capacity and brain size are not always directly correlated; neural organisation is a very significant factor, and difficult to infer from skeletal remains.
Sometimes it's difficult to infer from actual physical observation of the organism...
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Socialised Medicine Yaaaaaaaayyyy

Post by Seth » Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:42 am

mistermack wrote:
Seth wrote:
Svartalf wrote:Actually, WE are reaching that stage, only we have better medicine so we can perform c sections and episiotomies if that's needed...
I've said for some time that intelligence may only be a positive survival trait up to a certain level. After that it may become a negative one. The question is whether we have already passed the tipping point and are doomed to extinction by intelligence.

The existence of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons points towards that fate.
Jeepers, intelligence isn't your strong subject, is it ?
Firstly, there are now seven billion of us. That doesn't point to a trend towards extinction.
That's not what the ZPGers and the global warmists keep telling us.
You are talking about a theoretical possibility, not an actual trend.
Ever seen video of some of the rodent plagues in Australia? Guess what happens when they finish fucking, eating and making baby rodents because the food's all gone...
But also, that threat is due to technology, not intelligence. Do you not get the difference?
Er, that's rather my point. Technological acumen does not always equal intelligence.

Stone age men had the same intelligence as modern man.
You know that how, exactly?
The same level of intelligence as today helped them to survive and multiply. There's nothing about intelligence that is a negative survival trait.
It's only technology that could pose that threat.
If you're not intelligent enough to develop technologies that can take all the really intelligent people along with you into radioactive holocaust, technology is not really that much of a problem.
And actually, technology also has the possibility to prevent extinction of the species, by virus or meteorite impact, or other disasters that a less advanced species couldn't hope to cope with.
Didn't say it didn't.
I would say that that hugely outweighs the theoretical possibility of extinction through our own actions.
Let's hope so. I say that we will be very, very lucky to survive as a species through the stage of development that allows us to create world-destroying weapons in the first place. That's why we don't let children play with matches and gasoline.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Socialised Medicine Yaaaaaaaayyyy

Post by MrJonno » Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:08 pm

Any advantage in characters that allow us to survive in a specific environment (ie intelligence) have to be at a cost in other areas. Evolution really is a zero sum game.

Human beings advantages are that their intellgence allows them to use tools to make up for their relatively weak physical strength. If for some reason tools arent avaliable/can't be created we are screwed. In a jungle far from civilization fight where its a bacteria versus a human being in many cases that bacteria is going to win. Get to a hospital and the odds are go up way in your favour (most of the time)
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Re: Socialised Medicine Yaaaaaaaayyyy

Post by mistermack » Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:49 pm

Seth wrote: That's not what the ZPGers and the global warmists keep telling us.
Your point being what?
Seth wrote: Ever seen video of some of the rodent plagues in Australia? Guess what happens when they finish fucking, eating and making baby rodents because the food's all gone...
And yet the rodents are still there. Nowhere near extinction. Anyway, It's agriculture that causes the population explosions. Not something rodents have evolved to deal with. We can and are dealing with it.
Seth wrote: Er, that's rather my point. Technological acumen does not always equal intelligence.
Your point has changed then. Typical of your ''debating'' standard. Your point WAS that intelligence becomes a liability, after a certain point.
Seth wrote:
Mistermack wrote: Stone age men had the same intelligence as modern man.
You know that how, exactly?
Because it's something I've studied, if you want the evidence, you have to do likewise.
Intelligence is the most studied part of human evolution, so there's lots of evidence out there, if you could follow it.
Seth wrote: If you're not intelligent enough to develop technologies that can take all the really intelligent people along with you into radioactive holocaust, technology is not really that much of a problem.
Like I said, you're just extrapolating theoretical possibilities, without looking at the facts. Go to Chernobyl, and you will see loads of wildlife thriving, in spite of the radiation.
Wikipedia wrote: After the disaster, four square kilometers of pine forest directly downwind of the reactor turned reddish-brown and died, earning the name of the "Red Forest".[120] Some animals in the worst-hit areas also died or stopped reproducing. Most domestic animals were removed from the exclusion zone, but horses left on an island in the Pripyat River 6 km (4 mi) from the power plant died when their thyroid glands were destroyed by radiation doses of 150–200 Sv.[121] Some cattle on the same island died and those that survived were stunted because of thyroid damage. The next generation appeared to be normal.[121]
Your understanding of radiation is at Greenpeace level. ie fuck all.
Seth wrote: Didn't say it didn't.
Didn't say you did. But your post ignored that fact.
Seth wrote: Let's hope so. I say that we will be very, very lucky to survive as a species through the stage of development that allows us to create world-destroying weapons in the first place. That's why we don't let children play with matches and gasoline.
What world destroying weapons? We have weapons that can cause a bit of damage. We haven't got any world destroying weapons. You SHOULD join Greenpeace.
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Re: Socialised Medicine Yaaaaaaaayyyy

Post by MrJonno » Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:43 pm

What world destroying weapons? We have weapons that can cause a bit of damage. We haven't got any world destroying weapons. You SHOULD join Greenpeace.
At some point in our future we will get to the point where someone can create a city, country maybe even country destroying weapon using equipment bought from the local chemist.

Cook up your own little black hole in the kitchen one day perhaps

Then we really are fucked
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