Vigilante

[Collector1337]

Collector

Liberty has never been about having the freedom to break the law, or to do things which result in other people being killed.

Huh? When did I say anything about breaking the law or killing anyone?

[Collector1337]

To collector

It is a very sad thing, but your hilarity may be a valid response to those suggestions. While the US government remains utterly corrupt, and the gun manufacturers, through their stooges, exercise so much control over what is supposed to be a democracy, it is hard to see much sense prevailing.

I'm good with that because the US government IS corrupt and we DO NOT live in a democracy. That's exactly why we have the 2nd Amendment...and our guns.

Whatever the faults that your government may have, it's the whole "we need our guns to protect us from an evil government" thing that makes you folk look like utter lunatics and fanatics...

So, we literally "needed our guns to protect us from an evil government" being the crown. And you wonder why we have the 2nd Amendment as an insurance policy to ensure that it can never happen again?

You claim to understand the historical significance of this, but clearly you do not.

[Collector1337]

The current reason for the second amendment is to maintain a lucrative market for the American gun manufacturing industry, despite the killings and carnage that is the result.

Complete lie and total propaganda.

It's hilarious you actually believe that. It also displays how little you know about the so-called "gun industry."

No one forces anyone to buy a gun. I do because it is my choice. I enjoy it. And I enjoy my freedom.

[FBM]

I can understand it had a historical reason.

So did religion, letting blood and bedlams...

Historical reasons evaporate, if not maintained for altered purposes...

True that, but in the meantime gun ownership worked its way into the American lifestyle, through hunting, sporting, etc. It has become deeply interwoven with the national identity of most Americans. Quite literally many of my youngest memories have a firearm element in them, mostly of elders bringing game home. No doubt people profit from the situation, but I don't think anyone consciously created it. In order to change it now, you'd have to convince a few hundred million people to erase what is to them a large part of their cultural heritage. With so many concervatives around, that's a tall order.

[JimC]

To collector

It is a very sad thing, but your hilarity may be a valid response to those suggestions. While the US government remains utterly corrupt, and the gun manufacturers, through their stooges, exercise so much control over what is supposed to be a democracy, it is hard to see much sense prevailing.

I'm good with that because the US government IS corrupt and we DO NOT live in a democracy. That's exactly why we have the 2nd Amendment...and our guns.

Whatever the faults that your government may have, it's the whole "we need our guns to protect us from an evil government" thing that makes you folk look like utter lunatics and fanatics...

I'm sure the same lame rhetoric was used by the Third Reich, and Mao, and Stalin, and every other despotic tyrant in history as an excuse to disarm the public.

The good news is we don't care what you think because we're free and you're not.

Opposition to such tyrants is a much more complex and nuanced process than the nonsensical romanticism of a few "heroes" with guns, no matter how appealing the fantasy may be...

And in the vast majority of western democracies, rational people have no need of weapons to make their political mark - we have moved beyond the childish barbarity of the frontier mentality...

[Collector1337]

The good news is we don't care what you think because we're free and you're not.

Opposition to such tyrants is a much more complex and nuanced process than the nonsensical romanticism of a few "heroes" with guns, no matter how appealing the fantasy may be...

And in the vast majority of western democracies, rational people have no need of weapons to make their political mark - we have moved beyond the childish barbarity of the frontier mentality...

Omfg. Every time I read this forum it's the same constant face palm from the same cast of characters. It's almost as if the bias in your culture is so ingrained over the generations of brainwashing, that your brain literally does not contain the wiring necessary to even fucking comprehend what freedom actually is. "the nonsensical romanticism of a few "heroes" with guns, no matter how appealing the fantasy may be..." This would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad. You think that we think things... that we don't actually think. Operating on stereotypes and oversimplifications isn't going to connect that synapse that might finally give you a fucking clue.

[JimC]

The good news is we don't care what you think because we're free and you're not.

Opposition to such tyrants is a much more complex and nuanced process than the nonsensical romanticism of a few "heroes" with guns, no matter how appealing the fantasy may be...

And in the vast majority of western democracies, rational people have no need of weapons to make their political mark - we have moved beyond the childish barbarity of the frontier mentality...

Omfg. Every time I read this forum it's the same constant face palm from the same cast of characters. It's almost as if the bias in your culture is so ingrained over the generations of brainwashing, that your brain literally does not contain the wiring necessary to even fucking comprehend what freedom actually is. "the nonsensical romanticism of a few "heroes" with guns, no matter how appealing the fantasy may be..." This would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad. You think that we think things... that we don't actually think. Operating on stereotypes and oversimplifications isn't going to connect that synapse that might finally give you a fucking clue.

The clue obviously involves the entire population of Australia buying assault rifles to defend ourselves against our democratically elected government...

Gun nuts are utter fucking lunatics..

[Blind groper]

Just to make one thing clear, once more about my views.

I have no problem with people owning sporting rifles to hunt game.

My objection is to people being freely able to buy tools for committing murder, meaning hand guns. They have little value as hunting weapons, since a rifle is much better. Their chief characteristics are portability, concealability, and lethality at close range. This means they are ideal for sneaking into close range, whipping them out and committing murder, which happens in the USA 8,000 times a year. Banning rifles, shotguns, or even assault guns will have little effect on the murder rate. But getting rid of hand guns would save thousands of lives every year.

If you want to insist on owning something to fend off "the evil government", then a hand gun is of little value anyway. A rifle is much better.

[Collector1337]

The good news is we don't care what you think because we're free and you're not.

Opposition to such tyrants is a much more complex and nuanced process than the nonsensical romanticism of a few "heroes" with guns, no matter how appealing the fantasy may be...

And in the vast majority of western democracies, rational people have no need of weapons to make their political mark - we have moved beyond the childish barbarity of the frontier mentality...

Omfg. Every time I read this forum it's the same constant face palm from the same cast of characters. It's almost as if the bias in your culture is so ingrained over the generations of brainwashing, that your brain literally does not contain the wiring necessary to even fucking comprehend what freedom actually is. "the nonsensical romanticism of a few "heroes" with guns, no matter how appealing the fantasy may be..." This would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad. You think that we think things... that we don't actually think. Operating on stereotypes and oversimplifications isn't going to connect that synapse that might finally give you a fucking clue.

The clue obviously involves the entire population of Australia buying assault rifles to defend ourselves against our democratically elected government...

Gun nuts are utter fucking lunatics..

And... boom. Face palm right on cue.

Proof of the ingrained bias on display. You think in terms like "assault rifles."

What blindness.

[Collector1337]

Just to make one thing clear, once more about my views.

I have no problem with people owning sporting rifles to hunt game.

My objection is to people being freely able to buy tools for committing murder, meaning hand guns. They have little value as hunting weapons, since a rifle is much better. Their chief characteristics are portability, concealability, and lethality at close range. This means they are ideal for sneaking into close range, whipping them out and committing murder, which happens in the USA 8,000 times a year. Banning rifles, shotguns, or even assault guns will have little effect on the murder rate. But getting rid of hand guns would save thousands of lives every year.

If you want to insist on owning something to fend off "the evil government", then a hand gun is of little value anyway. A rifle is much better.

A rifle is much better. Probably the smartest thing you've ever said.

But it says, "shall not be infringed" so that includes pistols too. Sorry.

It's the most practical means of self defense. The government can't rob me of my right to defend myself.

All these "handgun murders" you constantly drone on about, is not a valid argument in my opinion. First off, a high number of them are just gang bangers shooting each other, so I could really give a shit. Second, there isn't freedom without some risk. I am willing to accept that risk. It is more than worth it. But, I have a feeling, you don't understand this. We don't have people fleeing the country because of all the dreaded "handgun murders," quite the opposite in fact.

[aspire1670]

Just to make one thing clear, once more about my views.

I have no problem with people owning sporting rifles to hunt game.

My objection is to people being freely able to buy tools for committing murder, meaning hand guns. They have little value as hunting weapons, since a rifle is much better. Their chief characteristics are portability, concealability, and lethality at close range. This means they are ideal for sneaking into close range, whipping them out and committing murder, which happens in the USA 8,000 times a year. Banning rifles, shotguns, or even assault guns will have little effect on the murder rate. But getting rid of hand guns would save thousands of lives every year.

If you want to insist on owning something to fend off "the evil government", then a hand gun is of little value anyway. A rifle is much better.

A rifle is much better. Probably the smartest thing you've ever said.

But it says, "shall not be infringed" so that includes pistols too. Sorry.

It's the most practical means of self defense. The government can't rob me of my right to defend myself.

All these "handgun murders" you constantly drone on about, is not a valid argument in my opinion. First off, a high number of them are just gang bangers shooting each other, so I could really give a shit. Second, there isn't freedom without some risk. I am willing to accept that risk. It is more than worth it. But, I have a feeling, you don't understand this. We don't have people fleeing the country because of all the dreaded "handgun murders," quite the opposite in fact.

Thank you for your willingness to accept the risk for the victims of mass shootings. I'm sure their friends and relatives and future victims will really appreciate the dangers you are running on their behalf. As an aside, How many dead children before it won't be worth it for you to keep fondling your guns?

[Blind groper]

Amazing how the propaganda put out by the gun manufacturers has seeped into the weak minded. They actually believe that owning a gun is what freedom is all about.

Sorry guys, but it aint true. The global community does not believe it, because it is not correct. The United Nations put out a universal declaration of human rights, combining the mass wisdom of the whole world to do so, and owning guns is most conspicuous by its absense. Probably because the gun makers do not have a lobby and bribing opportunity at the UN. Thank Finagle for that!

The wording of the second amendment makes it clear that the US founding fathers were simply trying to ensure they had amateurs with guns to defend the nation. The use of the word "right" must have been used very cynically. But governments have always used propaganda to twist the public round to doing things convenient to the rulers.

[Seth]

I can understand it had a historical reason.

So did religion, letting blood and bedlams...

Historical reasons evaporate, if not maintained for altered purposes...

True that, but in the meantime gun ownership worked its way into the American lifestyle...

It didn't "work its way in" to anything. Our lifestyle and the foundation of our entire Republic was built from the ground up with the idea that the right to keep and bear arms is a fundamental, natural, unalienable right and we constructed thing so that our government cannot infringe on those rights.

Remove that foundation and the entire edifice will collapse into what Marx and his insane progeny want: a totalitarian dictatorship wielding absolute power because no one can prevent it from doing so.

And what that means is that defense of the RKBA is vital to the existence of the Republic, and those of us who desire to protect the Republic will do whatever is necessary to preserve our rights.

[Seth]

Amazing how the propaganda put out by the gun manufacturers has seeped into the weak minded. They actually believe that owning a gun is what freedom is all about.

Wrong. Owning a gun is what ensures that we remain free. Big difference.

Sorry guys, but it aint true.

Actually, it is.

The global community does not believe it, because it is not correct.

The global community is largely made up of ignorant serfs who do as they are told. Some few have the ability to reject tyranny because they have not allowed their government to disarm them. The rest are just slaves to whomever has the guns.

The United Nations put out a universal declaration of human rights, combining the mass wisdom of the whole world to do so, and owning guns is most conspicuous by its absense.

The UN put out a declaration of human rights created by despotic politicians intent on securing their future ability to rule over the lumpen proletarian masses without fear of being overthrown by force, which is why no mention is made of the right to keep and bear arms that accrues naturally to every human being on the planet. It's absolutely laughable that you even think that the "whole world" participated in the drafting of that document, much less voted away their right to keep and bear arms.

Fuck the UN. The good news is that blue is incredibly conspicuous, even from long distance.

[Seth]

If you want to insist on owning something to fend off "the evil government", then a hand gun is of little value anyway. A rifle is much better.

Couldn't agree more with the last. The late Col. Jeff Cooper, the guru of armed self defense often said "My pistol is for fighting my way to my rifle."

As to handguns being of "little value," your ignorance is showing again. Were this remotely true our military would not issue handguns to our combat troops, nor would the US have dropped hundreds of thousands of "victory guns" into occupied Europe during WWII. The point of dropping these single-shot .45ACP sheet-metal stamped incredibly cheap handguns that contained 5 rounds in the grip was to give the resistance in occupied Europe the weapons they needed to fight their way to some German's rifle or machine gun. One shot in the back of the head of some despotic tyrant's minions, delivered by stealth, arms one partisan with much more effective military arms.

Quit trying to bloviate about things you haven't the faintest clue of.

Edit: Not to mention the number of times that a regime change has been accomplished with one or two handgun bullets...