Violent crime still going down.

[Seth]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UTwqkl8BqS ... Twqkl8BqSc

I do not really expect too many people to watch the video referenced above. It is about the Koch brothers, who are major supporters of preventing gun control. They are mega billionnaires, who make lots of money from guns. It goes further, of course. They support with money a number of organisations, much beloved of Seth, which are designed to lobby for legislation to help the 1% richest at the cost to the 99% less rich. For example, they have a campaign to raise entitlement for pensions to 70 years of age. This means less tax spent, meaning the Koch brothers pay less tax.

They are up to their necks in supporting 'gun freedom' regardless of the cost to human homicide rates. This is to make more money. These are the people behind Seth's policies.

Poisoning the well and circumstantial ad hominem fallacies combined.

[Audley Strange]

To be fair to BG, Seth, the Koch Bros are, apparently, possessed with immortal reptilian vibrations who are the custodians of the Illuminati according to some literature. Though not Stephen Pinker so it can't be real.

[Blind groper]

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lance ... 4/fulltext


Despite Seth's sarcasm, the basic principle I espouse is correct. If you want the truth, find an authority that is impartial.

As a nice general rule, if someone or some organisation is making a lot of money from a particular idea, they will not be impartial in relation to that idea.

The Koch brothers are not the only wealthy people supporting 'research institutes' or think tanks to support those principles that lower taxes to the wealthy and generate even more money for the wealthy. The overall group is known as the "one percenters", meaning that they act on behalf of the 1% who have the most money, and their actions are frequently to the detrement of the other 99%.

If I want to find out about organic food, I do not read the literature of the British Soil Association, which is a fancy name for the marketing arm of the British organic food industry. I will go to an independent organisation like the British Food Standards Agency, wich has conducted the research needed.

If I want to learn about guns and their effect, I do not go to any organisation funded by the gun industry, for obvious reasons. However, Seth does. Again, for the obvious reason that those guys will tell him what he wants to hear, even though it is lies.

I go to the New England Journal of Medicine, which is one of the most reputable scientific journals on the planet, or to a reputable university like Harvard, or the Boston University, who have academics who have done proper research on the impact of guns on society.

The reference at the top of this post is for The Lancet, another one of those journals that deserves respect for its scientific approach, and its impartiality. Yet this note on guns in The Lancet is clearly one of concern about the harm guns do. It states clearly that guns in the home do not contribute to self defense, but rather increase deaths, especially from suicide. It also shows an example where removing a source of hand guns reduces homicides dramatically.

The end result of looking at material from reputable sources, rather than those sources financed by gun makers, is that more guns mean more deaths.

[Hermit]

The source I used in my previous post, the Australian Institute of Criminology, is wholly government owned and entirely tax-payer funded. Perhaps you could address the data it provides. They seem to fully support the points I repeatedly made, including my criticism of your position.

[Seth]

To be fair to BG, Seth, the Koch Bros are, apparently, possessed with immortal reptilian vibrations who are the custodians of the Illuminati according to some literature. Though not Stephen Pinker so it can't be real.

Yes, and I understand that they sacrifice and then eat liberal babies in their daily conservative worship services....

[Blind groper]

The source I used in my previous post, the Australian Institute of Criminology, is wholly government owned and entirely tax-payer funded. Perhaps you could address the data it provides. They seem to fully support the points I repeatedly made, including my criticism of your position.

And you ignore the fact that the gun controls in Australia stopped mass murders.

[Hermit]

The source I used in my previous post, the Australian Institute of Criminology, is wholly government owned and entirely tax-payer funded. Perhaps you could address the data it provides. They seem to fully support the points I repeatedly made, including my criticism of your position.

And you ignore the fact that the gun controls in Australia stopped mass murders.

Even if it was established that gun controls caused massacres to stop occurring, it remains a pertinent point to note that the overall trend in homicides (which includes the Port Arthur massacre) remained constant for several years on either side of its implementation.

[Seth]

The source I used in my previous post, the Australian Institute of Criminology, is wholly government owned and entirely tax-payer funded. Perhaps you could address the data it provides. They seem to fully support the points I repeatedly made, including my criticism of your position.

And you ignore the fact that the gun controls in Australia stopped mass murders.

Even if it was established that gun controls caused massacres to stop occurring, it remains a pertinent point to note that the overall trend in homicides (which includes the Port Arthur massacre) remained constant for several years on either side of its implementation.

Not to mention that "mass murders" are exceedingly rare to begin with. Ignoring the rise in violent crime shows a blindness to anything but BG's anti gun agenda.

[Blind groper]

Seth

Australia had 13 mass shootings in 18 years before the stringent gun control, and none in the 14 years that followed. This is significant.

[Seth]

Seth

Australia had 13 mass shootings in 18 years before the stringent gun control, and none in the 14 years that followed. This is significant.

How exactly do you define "mass shooting?"

Many anti-gun zealots will conflate multiple victim shootings such as an entire family killed by a deranged family member with "mass shootings" that are generally defined as multiple-victim shootings taking place at a public venue in an essentially random attack with the specific intent of killing random persons unknown to the shooter.

You'd have to list all 13 and their details for me to accept your claim as accurate.

[Blind groper]

Not my claim. I merely quote the many references reporting. However you define it, that is a major change, and can be ascribed only to the gun control, even if you, Seth, do not like it.

[Seth]

Not my claim. I merely quote the many references reporting. However you define it, that is a major change, and can be ascribed only to the gun control, even if you, Seth, do not like it.

Wrong. Correlation =/= causation, as you have so often pointed out.

[rainbow]

To be fair to BG, Seth, the Koch Bros are, apparently, possessed with immortal reptilian vibrations who are the custodians of the Illuminati according to some literature. Though not Stephen Pinker so it can't be real.

Yes, and I understand that they sacrifice and then eat liberal babies in their daily conservative worship services....

You Libertarians are far more fun than I ever imagined.
Are Africans allowed to join?

[Blind groper]

Wrong. Correlation =/= causation, as you have so often pointed out.

Actually Seth, I do not believe I said that. I am not fond of the slogan "Correlation does not equal causation" because it is just a slogan. It is sometimes true and it is sometimes false. Either way, argument by quoting slogans is bullshit argument.

[Seth]

To be fair to BG, Seth, the Koch Bros are, apparently, possessed with immortal reptilian vibrations who are the custodians of the Illuminati according to some literature. Though not Stephen Pinker so it can't be real.

Yes, and I understand that they sacrifice and then eat liberal babies in their daily conservative worship services....

You Libertarians are far more fun than I ever imagined.
Are Africans allowed to join?

Of course. Conservatives aren't racists. Just look Thomas Sowell.