Saving the Internet from the NSA

[FBM]

He was pretty hard to pin down, what with never asserting much of anything himself. Then again, this was before Aristotle started formalizing logical fallacies, so you can find them in the dialogs.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Piscator,

This post, and the previous one which it quotes,are unjust and contrary to the harassment section of our play nice guidelines.

Seth has never, to my knowledge, posted anything overtly racist, nor has he supported anyone that has. Please don't post any similar accusations in future unless you can provide quotes that back them up. Feel free to criticise members for the things that they say, just don't expand that to include things you think they might kinda think perhaps.

[Seth]

You know, another genuine reason why I just give up and start belittling certain people is that I just don't have the energy or concentration span to maintain a long debate any more. I posted an update to my facebook page earlier today joking that I wanted to go chain myself to Parliament House gates, and when the media or anyone asks why, I'm going to reply with "I couldn't be bothered explaining". But that pretty much sums it all up for me. I can barely be bothered explaining, and even when I and others do, so few people actually listen or give a fuck that it's all pointless. The world may as well fall in a screaming heap. It's the only thing that will make people wake up to the ills of our society.

I understand the impulse, and I've given in to it from time to time as well. I'm concerned that this is symptomatic of a deeper problem you face and frankly I'm worried about you. We all know you are facing serious personal issues and it's well known that such stressful situations can have a major impact on one's mental health. Trust me, I know because I'm going through it too right now. Short temper and outbursts of anger over something so unimportant as a discussion on the internet says to me that you should probably seek assistance in dealing with the stress. I know it's hard, it took me years to consent to seeing a psychiatrist to be prescribed anti-depressants, but it was a good thing I did because I never would have survived my breakup without them.

Really, rEv, seek counseling, you'll feel better if you do.

[Seth]

I'm becoming more and more convinced that arguing/debating accomplishes practically nothing compared to the amount of time it takes up. It can be good intellectual exercise, but if you do it in the hopes of changing others' minds, it's cat herding.

This is largely true. I avoid getting upset about not being able to change minds by aiming my commentary mostly at the lurkers and visitors here. We members know each other pretty well by now and we all have our positions on issues that are quite predictable and are unlikely to change. But to me, it's the journey to enlightenment that's important, not the destination, and I'm constantly learning new things because of my participation here. But I don't get frustrated because someone refuses to modify their opinion because that's not the purpose of my participation. I'm satisfied if we explore the subject both because it improves my understanding and it provides information to those who watch but do not participate. We too often forget that this is a public forum and there are a lot of people who stop by to enjoy the interplay between us, and to me that's the most important aspect of the forum.

[Blind groper]

Anyone who gets involved in a forum discussion under the belief that this is going to somehow make the world a better place is seriously deluded and needs to see a psychiatrist.

I regards forum discussions as a hobby. I do it because I find the discussions interesting. Occasionally even enlightening. I still sometimes get frustrated in seeing people espousing views that, to me, are entirely wrong, when I cannot seem to get a saner view across. But the uplifting parts of these discussions outweigh the frustration.

In other words, if you do not enjoy the discussion, find something else to do that you will enjoy more.

[Seth]

Anyone who gets involved in a forum discussion under the belief that this is going to somehow make the world a better place is seriously deluded and needs to see a psychiatrist.

I regards forum discussions as a hobby. I do it because I find the discussions interesting. Occasionally even enlightening. I still sometimes get frustrated in seeing people espousing views that, to me, are entirely wrong, when I cannot seem to get a saner view across. But the uplifting parts of these discussions outweigh the frustration.

In other words, if you do not enjoy the discussion, find something else to do that you will enjoy more.

I agree, but I'd also like to say that if someone isn't accepting your "saner view" perhaps its because it's your view that's in error, not theirs.

[pErvinalia]

You know, another genuine reason why I just give up and start belittling certain people is that I just don't have the energy or concentration span to maintain a long debate any more. I posted an update to my facebook page earlier today joking that I wanted to go chain myself to Parliament House gates, and when the media or anyone asks why, I'm going to reply with "I couldn't be bothered explaining". But that pretty much sums it all up for me. I can barely be bothered explaining, and even when I and others do, so few people actually listen or give a fuck that it's all pointless. The world may as well fall in a screaming heap. It's the only thing that will make people wake up to the ills of our society.

I understand the impulse, and I've given in to it from time to time as well. I'm concerned that this is symptomatic of a deeper problem you face and frankly I'm worried about you. We all know you are facing serious personal issues and it's well known that such stressful situations can have a major impact on one's mental health. Trust me, I know because I'm going through it too right now. Short temper and outbursts of anger over something so unimportant as a discussion on the internet says to me that you should probably seek assistance in dealing with the stress. I know it's hard, it took me years to consent to seeing a psychiatrist to be prescribed anti-depressants, but it was a good thing I did because I never would have survived my breakup without them.

Really, rEv, seek counseling, you'll feel better if you do.

Cheers, Seth. I'm on anti-depressants (just recently doubled the dosage - didn't have any noticeable effect). I'm working myself up to go see a psychologist again. It's a bit hard at the moment as I am in the middle of nowhere. I've given up on the world. I just argue now because it makes me feel like I'm doing something. It's just electrons and the internet after all. When I abuse someone it's argument and context specific. It's rare that I carry that over to all contexts (like I pretty much did with Coito).

[Seth]

You know, another genuine reason why I just give up and start belittling certain people is that I just don't have the energy or concentration span to maintain a long debate any more. I posted an update to my facebook page earlier today joking that I wanted to go chain myself to Parliament House gates, and when the media or anyone asks why, I'm going to reply with "I couldn't be bothered explaining". But that pretty much sums it all up for me. I can barely be bothered explaining, and even when I and others do, so few people actually listen or give a fuck that it's all pointless. The world may as well fall in a screaming heap. It's the only thing that will make people wake up to the ills of our society.

I understand the impulse, and I've given in to it from time to time as well. I'm concerned that this is symptomatic of a deeper problem you face and frankly I'm worried about you. We all know you are facing serious personal issues and it's well known that such stressful situations can have a major impact on one's mental health. Trust me, I know because I'm going through it too right now. Short temper and outbursts of anger over something so unimportant as a discussion on the internet says to me that you should probably seek assistance in dealing with the stress. I know it's hard, it took me years to consent to seeing a psychiatrist to be prescribed anti-depressants, but it was a good thing I did because I never would have survived my breakup without them.

Really, rEv, seek counseling, you'll feel better if you do.

Cheers, Seth. I'm on anti-depressants (just recently doubled the dosage - didn't have any noticeable effect). I'm working myself up to go see a psychologist again. It's a bit hard at the moment as I am in the middle of nowhere. I've given up on the world. I just argue now because it makes me feel like I'm doing something. It's just electrons and the internet after all. When I abuse someone it's argument and context specific. It's rare that I carry that over to all contexts (like I pretty much did with Coito).

I'm doing exactly the same thing. I suggest you argue the merits rather than alienating the people you still have contact with. A little venting is fine, but there's no reason to personalize it. We'd rather sympathize with your plight than dismiss you as a surly curmudgeon. That's what I try to do. The more I engage my brain posting long, thought-out replies, the less time I have to feel sorry for myself.

As for tonight, I'm at the theater to see a double feature of the Hobbit, the 2nd of which premiers tonight. I took the trouble to dress up, apply cologne and have nice dinner...alone, just to feel a bit better about things through normalcy.

Be of good cheer, it's Christ...oops...Xmas time.

[rainbow]

Be of good cheer, it's Christ...oops...Xmas time.

Life is too short to drink bad beer or listen to Right-Wing rants.

[Blind groper]

The 25th December is the anniversary of the birth of that wonderful scientist, Isaac Newton. This means that the 25th December represents the beginnings of modern scientific rationality.

I will be eating turkey, and getting right royally blasted on Newtonmass.

[Beatsong]

Anyone calling Snowden a hero is going to be shitting themselves soon. Probably literally. Much more of this story is going to come to light (hopefully).

I'm not in favor of the death penalty, but if there was anyone in the world I'd happily beat to death with a baseball bat, it is Snowden.

Why? Because I know a lot more about this matter than the fucking media does, that's why. Don't believe me, or don't want to? I don't give a fuck.

Still waiting. Like to give us any indication when "soon" might be? Or is it like one of the prophesies of Nostradamus thingies?

[Blind groper]

The more I hear about Snowdon's revelations, the more I think he is a hero. He has shown that the NSA and much of the USA military and intelligence bodies are simply evil bastards with no concern for the rights of anyone else, and it is past time they were given a right royal kicking in the fundamentum.

[JimC]

The more I hear about Snowdon's revelations, the more I think he is a hero. He has shown that the NSA and much of the USA military and intelligence bodies are simply evil bastards with no concern for the rights of anyone else, and it is past time they were given a right royal kicking in the fundamentum.

And the US has recently announced moves to restrict the extent of the information the NSA can gather. There is no way that would have happened without Snowden's revelations, so it would be hypocritical indeed for the US to prosecute him. Or should the Emperor sentence the little boy who pointed out he was naked to death?

[Seth]

The more I hear about Snowdon's revelations, the more I think he is a hero. He has shown that the NSA and much of the USA military and intelligence bodies are simply evil bastards with no concern for the rights of anyone else, and it is past time they were given a right royal kicking in the fundamentum.

And the US has recently announced moves to restrict the extent of the information the NSA can gather. There is no way that would have happened without Snowden's revelations, so it would be hypocritical indeed for the US to prosecute him. Or should the Emperor sentence the little boy who pointed out he was naked to death?

Kabuki theater. Nothing, and I mean absolutely NOTHING is going to change inside the NSA. This is Obama playing to the press so the dems don't take the hit in 2016. The promises made mean absolutely nothing and everybody behind the scenes is chuckling at the gullible unwashed masses and as soon as the furor dies down it'll all be forgotten...and the NSA will continue doing what it's been doing all along, both overt and covert, and the data will flow into their new data center in Utah, and they will continue to find new ways to spy on anyone and everyone, including Merkle and everybody else.

That's how government works. If they have the capacity to do something you can bet your ass that they are going to do it, whether they tell anyone about it or not.

You may simply assume that the NSA has the capability of listening to you, looking at you (through your phone/computer camera), following you, and reading absolutely anything that you create digitally from now until the end of time or the zombie apocalypse, whichever comes first.

Get used to it and adapt your activities accordingly.

[JimC]

The more I hear about Snowdon's revelations, the more I think he is a hero. He has shown that the NSA and much of the USA military and intelligence bodies are simply evil bastards with no concern for the rights of anyone else, and it is past time they were given a right royal kicking in the fundamentum.

And the US has recently announced moves to restrict the extent of the information the NSA can gather. There is no way that would have happened without Snowden's revelations, so it would be hypocritical indeed for the US to prosecute him. Or should the Emperor sentence the little boy who pointed out he was naked to death?

Kabuki theater. Nothing, and I mean absolutely NOTHING is going to change inside the NSA. This is Obama playing to the press so the dems don't take the hit in 2016. The promises made mean absolutely nothing and everybody behind the scenes is chuckling at the gullible unwashed masses and as soon as the furor dies down it'll all be forgotten...and the NSA will continue doing what it's been doing all along, both overt and covert, and the data will flow into their new data center in Utah, and they will continue to find new ways to spy on anyone and everyone, including Merkle and everybody else.

That's how government works. If they have the capacity to do something you can bet your ass that they are going to do it, whether they tell anyone about it or not.

You may simply assume that the NSA has the capability of listening to you, looking at you (through your phone/computer camera), following you, and reading absolutely anything that you create digitally from now until the end of time or the zombie apocalypse, whichever comes first.

Get used to it and adapt your activities accordingly.

I think you over-dramatise it a bit, but you are probably right that the proposed "reforms" are just fiddling around on the surface...

My views on Snowden still stand, however...