Is the USA uncivilised?

[Blind groper]

Jim

If you think Al Qaeda do not get any help from their host Muslim countries, then you are naive.

But that does not matter. The Taliban and Afghanistan were attacked by the USA for political reasons. Not because the Taliban hosted Al Qaeda. Dubya needed a way of saying to the voters :"I am taking serious action, proving I am a strong leader." All bullshit of course, and bullshit that led to the deaths of tens of thousands of people.

Targeting the Taliban was not targeting the perpetrators of 9/11. There was not, and is not, any evidence linking the Taliban to 9/11. As I pointed out, there was a much better way to tackle Al Qaeda, and it has been done with amazing success. The attack on Afghanistan was not needed, and achieved exactly nothing in practical terms, except to get a war criminal re-elected as American president.

[JimC]

The USA and its presidents will always have a mixture of motives for major international interventions. Voter reaction, the interests of corporate America and their ability to influence the international community will always be part of the mix, but that in itself does not make any given action wrong or right. As all nations do, they have the right of self defence. Initial strikes on Afghanistan, both on Al Quaeda camps and the Taliban government who fostered them with malice aforethought were perfectly justified.

Remaining in the mire of Afghani politics, and committing ground troops to support a corrupt government were ill-advised at the best, criminally stupid at worst...

[Svartalf]

Hey, Chamberlain was doing the best he could with a shit deck of cards! He knew we weren't ready to poke the Hunnish wasps nest.

Daladier was just a traitor

[Blind groper]

Jim,

Attacking Al Qaeda after 9/11 was justified.

Attacking the government and people of Afghanistan was not.

[JimC]

Jim,

Attacking Al Qaeda after 9/11 was justified.

Attacking the government and people of Afghanistan was not.

To the extent (unfortunately, a fair extent it was) that western military action has harmed Afghani civilians, you are right.

I still contend, however, that the Taliban leadership and military forces at the time of the twin towers attacks were both morally and legally blameworthy, due to their clear support for Al Quaeda fighters in their territory, and were legitimate targets for US strikes. Beyond that, it was a foolish move to make regime change in Afghanistan an objective.

[Seth]

As I said, the Taliban are not nice people. But that is not an excuse to attack them. Nor was the fact that some Al Qaeda were living among them. Al Qaeda live across many nations and always have. Bin Laden was Saudi, but the USA has never threatened to attack the Saudi's, and they are every bit as nasty as the Taliban.

Nasty to whom? That's the point. Bin Laden was a Saudi who was expelled from Saudi Arabia for his radical actions. If Bin Laden had been harbored by the Saudis things would have gone differently. How differently is a matter of speculation, but I doubt the US would have done nothing in response.

Can we expect another US attack in Somalia?

You mean other than the many attacks on terrorists and pirates that the US has already made? Just because you don't hear about them doesn't mean they aren't happening. We're just using our SOG forces for now. I do think parking the Ohio or the Iowa off the coast of Somalia and lobbing thousand-pound 16 inch artillery shells at all the coastal pirate bases would be a good idea...till they get the message.

We know that Somalia shelters a hell of a lot of Al Qaeda and Al Qaeda affiliated people. But it will not happen (nor should it) because there is no selfish advantage to be gained thereby.

Wanna bet? Ever hear of "drone strikes?" Ever hear of Navy SEALS?

In other words, the attack on Afghanistan was hypocritical - done for purely political advantage by a president who should be facing the international court for his evil actions.

In other words you don't know shit from Shinola.

[Seth]

Jim,

Attacking Al Qaeda after 9/11 was justified.

Attacking the government and people of Afghanistan was not.

Then it's a good thing we didn't do that I guess, since we only attacked the Taliban, Al Qaeda and anybody who took up arms against our forces. For the rest of the Afghan people we are building schools, sewer systems, water systems, power systems, hospitals and all manner of other social infrastructure to assist them in moving forward. Of course it's difficult because the fundamentalist Taliban fuckwits keep blowing up all the nice stuff we build for the Afghan people and keep killing women and children who try to go to school, but that's why we kill them right back.

[Blind groper]

If the USA is such a lovely nation, why can it not deliver hospitals and schools etc without killing people?

Total USA foreign aid budget is less than $US50 billion, a lot of which is military aid to its allies, such as over 3 billion to Israel. Total USA military budge - money set aside to kill people - is 600 to 800 billion.

[Ian]

Do you know why Japanese public opinion of the US has surged so high in the last few years? Because of US assistance after the Fukushima earthquake/typhoon/nuclear disaster in 2011. The assistance included hospital ships offshore - courtesy of the US Navy and it's military budget set aside to kill people.

How many hospitals and schools do Russia and China deliver?

[Seth]

If the USA is such a lovely nation, why can it not deliver hospitals and schools etc without killing people?

Because in some cases it's necessary to kill a bunch of people who are obstructing the ability to provide anything to anyone, kind of like the warlords of Somalia who had literally millions of tons of food aid from the US and elsewhere stacked on the docks that they refused to distribute to anyone but their own cohorts.

Total USA foreign aid budget is less than $US50 billion, a lot of which is military aid to its allies, such as over 3 billion to Israel. Total USA military budge - money set aside to kill people - is 600 to 800 billion.[/quote]

But then there's all the private charitable aid that Americans donate for nothing, which exceeds anything donated by any other nation on the face of the earth.

Not to mention that much of the cost of reconstruction comes in the form of combat engineers and government workers paid out of the military budget.

[Gallstones]

Patients 'were locked up’ at criticised NHS hospital

Elderly patients and children at one of the country’s largest hospitals have been locked up and restrained against their will, a whistleblower has claimed.

John Marchant, the former head of security at Dudley Group of Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust, said staff had routinely forced vulnerable patients to stay in their rooms – or even confined them to their beds - despite them posing no danger to anyone.

In an interview with The Telegraph, Mr Marchant said his security guards had become so concerned about the practice that in one instance, they had refused to restrain a child and warned bosses the action was illegal

He also alleged that pensioners had been subject to restraints when all they wanted was to walk around a ward, or chat with fellow patients.

[pErvinalia]

That's what happens when you put conservatives in charge.

[Seth]

That's what happens when you put conservatives in charge.

What you call a "conservative" we call a moderate Leftist. A Marxist nonetheless, but a moderate one.

[pErvinalia]

You think David Cameron is a "moderate leftist" and a Marxist?!? Fuck me you are off with the faeries.

[Seth]

You think David Cameron is a "moderate leftist" and a Marxist?!? Fuck me you are off with the faeries.

It's a nice place. They are pretty and make tinkling sounds as they fly by and they scatter fairy-dust everywhere...which makes me sneeze.