UK anti-Muslim hate crime soars, police figures show

Post Reply
User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 74306
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: UK anti-Muslim hate crime soars, police figures show

Post by JimC » Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:34 am

rEvolutionist wrote:What's to be done about all this? PC'ness regarding freedom of Islamists to do whatever they want (particularly to their women and apostates) seems to be at an all time high. And accusations of "racism" in place of anti-islam/religion seem to be at an all time high. How do we get the message across that all religion is bonkers, but Islam appears to be slightly more bonkers and dangerous than the other delusions?
Very tricky, since it is very easy for an anti-islam message to be conflated with right-wing racist crap...
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

User avatar
pErvinalia
On the good stuff
Posts: 60983
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: UK anti-Muslim hate crime soars, police figures show

Post by pErvinalia » Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:37 am

Yeah. And I'm also very wary about falling for a simplistic view of Islam from all the media beatups about terrorism. I really don't know what the truth is. I've known plenty of nice and normal muslims. Of course, they still treat their women as second class citizens (although, to varying degrees), but they aren't interested in the slightest at destroying the great Satan. I want to be convinced that it's still a tiny minority of muslims who hate. And in my bones I kind of feel that it probably is. But the crazies need a fucking missile up their arse. Not sure where the middle ground lies...
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 25806
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
About me: Cantankerous grump
Location: Ignore lithpt
Contact:

Re: UK anti-Muslim hate crime soars, police figures show

Post by Hermit » Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:53 am

JimC wrote:...Hermit's collection of New Testament quotes, which show Jesus fully accepting all the old message. Christian apologists will weasel their way around this, but the more they do this, the more it shows that they are spinning a PC religion out of a goat-herders violent fantasy...
Yes, and I took care to quote only from the New Testament, and even ignored its book, Deuteronomy with its laws on what circumstances call for stonings to death, Paul's letters, and so on.

The Old Testament is fuller of God-ordained brutality than the Koran. For a take of the God of the Old Testament, take a look at this brief evaluation. With the exception of one or two minor sects, that God is still on every pulpit of every Christian church.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

User avatar
NineBerry
Tame Wolf
Posts: 9126
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:35 pm
Location: nSk
Contact:

Re: UK anti-Muslim hate crime soars, police figures show

Post by NineBerry » Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:37 pm

Audley Strange wrote: I do like our society, I am quite happy with much of it, however I do not think a trivial number of people who allow their lives to revolve round one book should be given any special treatment or start making demands, especially when many of their demands are anathema to the society. Makes no difference to me whether they are Muslims or not nor do I think such whining fucks represent Islam in the U.K.
But people have the right to make demands. And go protesting for their demands and petition parliament and the government and so forth. We then have the democratic processes to decide which of these demands will be fulfilled and which won't.

I have been a member of the board of a political party at state level in Germany and you won't believe how many emails with people pursuing the most extreme or most absurd ideas you get every week. Getting 30 people on the street to support some stupid idea like banning alcohol is certainly a non-issue. I have participated in political demonstrations with more than 100 participants that were then not even reported in local news, let alone in national or international news.

So why is this demonstrations by some extremists who as you rightly say don't represent Islam in the U.K. reported so much? Because it fits into this idea of the clash of cultures and the Islamization of the West and so forth.

User avatar
NineBerry
Tame Wolf
Posts: 9126
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:35 pm
Location: nSk
Contact:

Re: UK anti-Muslim hate crime soars, police figures show

Post by NineBerry » Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:42 pm

Hermit wrote:
NineBerry wrote:
mistermack wrote:And if you believe that the Koran is the word of god, that certainly makes you an extremist.
Oh really. In what way?
In the same way that if you believe that the Bible is the word of god, that certainly makes you an extremist. And why not believe that the Bible is the word of God? I mean doesn't it say so in the Bible?
Yes, but it doesn't make you an extremist. People who belief a book was written by some imaginary deity are usually able to ignore all the stuff in it they don't agree with. In Nazi Germany Hitler's Mein Kampf was the most often sold book. If you had asked people on the street, everyone would have agreed that it is one of the most important and best works of all time. Yet it seems that nearly no one has ever read it.

User avatar
NineBerry
Tame Wolf
Posts: 9126
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:35 pm
Location: nSk
Contact:

Re: UK anti-Muslim hate crime soars, police figures show

Post by NineBerry » Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:46 pm

JimC wrote: Sure, it does to you, and also the majority of mainstream christians today. However, in much of the past, and in the minds of christian fundamentalists today, the bible is the literal word of god.
I quoted a survey above which says that a third of Christians in the US belief the bible to be the literal word of God. An additional large number of people belief it was divinely inspired. I currently read "Caught in the pulpit" by Dennet/LaScola and there are reports by seminarians and priests who say how their faith was shaken when they learned in seminary about the real history of the bible. Some say they lost their faith because of that and all report that they feel they couldn't mention this real history of the bible among their congregation without being harshly criticized.

User avatar
cronus
Black Market Analyst
Posts: 18122
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:09 pm
About me: Illis quos amo deserviam
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: UK anti-Muslim hate crime soars, police figures show

Post by cronus » Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:41 pm

NineBerry wrote:
JimC wrote: Sure, it does to you, and also the majority of mainstream christians today. However, in much of the past, and in the minds of christian fundamentalists today, the bible is the literal word of god.
I quoted a survey above which says that a third of Christians in the US belief the bible to be the literal word of God. An additional large number of people belief it was divinely inspired. I currently read "Caught in the pulpit" by Dennet/LaScola and there are reports by seminarians and priests who say how their faith was shaken when they learned in seminary about the real history of the bible. Some say they lost their faith because of that and all report that they feel they couldn't mention this real history of the bible among their congregation without being harshly criticized.
A true Christian with his eye on the ball would have no shame. This is a fallen creation. A universe in error is hardly going to respect a book even if it does contain, somewhere and somehow, the word of the Creative One. Like everything containing significant meaning we need to read carefully and between the lines blah blah blah. Handled well this could be a Godsend for a director of human enterprise. Good or bad. :tup:
What will the world be like after its ruler is removed?

User avatar
NineBerry
Tame Wolf
Posts: 9126
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:35 pm
Location: nSk
Contact:

Re: UK anti-Muslim hate crime soars, police figures show

Post by NineBerry » Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:26 pm

True Christians indeed very often have their eyes on other people's balls.

User avatar
cronus
Black Market Analyst
Posts: 18122
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:09 pm
About me: Illis quos amo deserviam
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: UK anti-Muslim hate crime soars, police figures show

Post by cronus » Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:00 pm

NineBerry wrote:True Christians indeed very often have their eyes on other people's balls.
.....mostly Catholics do that. :coffee:
What will the world be like after its ruler is removed?

User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 41186
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: UK anti-Muslim hate crime soars, police figures show

Post by Svartalf » Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:04 pm

Dunno, I look more at women's crotches than men's balls, but maybe that's because I'm lapsed
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

User avatar
cronus
Black Market Analyst
Posts: 18122
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:09 pm
About me: Illis quos amo deserviam
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: UK anti-Muslim hate crime soars, police figures show

Post by cronus » Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:11 pm

Svartalf wrote:Dunno, I look more at women's crotches than men's balls, but maybe that's because I'm lapsed
Lapsed cases prove the point. Close call.
What will the world be like after its ruler is removed?

User avatar
Audley Strange
"I blame the victim"
Posts: 7485
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: UK anti-Muslim hate crime soars, police figures show

Post by Audley Strange » Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:54 pm

NineBerry wrote:
Audley Strange wrote: I do like our society, I am quite happy with much of it, however I do not think a trivial number of people who allow their lives to revolve round one book should be given any special treatment or start making demands, especially when many of their demands are anathema to the society. Makes no difference to me whether they are Muslims or not nor do I think such whining fucks represent Islam in the U.K.
But people have the right to make demands. And go protesting for their demands and petition parliament and the government and so forth. We then have the democratic processes to decide which of these demands will be fulfilled and which won't.
Agreed. However if 30 or 40 people are demanding special treatment on behalf of many many people who actually don't require or wish such I think we should be able to tell them "fuck off with your trivial shit." However if for example 100,000 people start complaining that those 30 or 40 people should be removed from the state (such as goons like the EDF and the BNP do), why should their demands be considered any more repugnant because of their political stance than a clutch of people who's beliefs are totally at odds with the state and why is it, that because such people are Muslim, we should give credence to their trivial bullshit?
NineBerry wrote: I have been a member of the board of a political party at state level in Germany and you won't believe how many emails with people pursuing the most extreme or most absurd ideas you get every week. Getting 30 people on the street to support some stupid idea like banning alcohol is certainly a non-issue. I have participated in political demonstrations with more than 100 participants that were then not even reported in local news, let alone in national or international news.
Yeah I used to be politically motivated in my youth, I do get the absurdity of the public in general. You make my point though why are the demands of a few pricks with a book fetish more valued that the demands of a lot more pricks with a flag fetish, who are reviled? It's pandering and THAT is not what democracy is about, one might actually consider that privilege.
NineBerry wrote: So why is this demonstrations by some extremists who as you rightly say don't represent Islam in the U.K. reported so much? Because it fits into this idea of the clash of cultures and the Islamization of the West and so forth.
Somewhat, but to be honest I think it more to do with middle class white guilt (outside of the Daily Mail) from my own experiences I have met many people and had conversations with many people who think that certain groups should be given a free pass, no matter what shit they get up to. One only has to look at Robert Fisk (whom I do admire) to see his own ideology has blinded him to the excesses of Islamists.

No one should get a free pass. No one should be favoured over others. We brought in laws to curb that shit.
"What started as a legitimate effort by the townspeople of Salem to identify, capture and kill those who did Satan's bidding quickly deteriorated into a witch hunt" Army Man

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 25806
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
About me: Cantankerous grump
Location: Ignore lithpt
Contact:

Re: UK anti-Muslim hate crime soars, police figures show

Post by Hermit » Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:23 pm

NineBerry wrote:
Hermit wrote:
NineBerry wrote:
mistermack wrote:And if you believe that the Koran is the word of god, that certainly makes you an extremist.
Oh really. In what way?
In the same way that if you believe that the Bible is the word of god, that certainly makes you an extremist. And why not believe that the Bible is the word of God? I mean doesn't it say so in the Bible?
Yes, but it doesn't make you an extremist. People who belief a book was written by some imaginary deity are usually able to ignore all the stuff in it they don't agree with. In Nazi Germany Hitler's Mein Kampf was the most often sold book. If you had asked people on the street, everyone would have agreed that it is one of the most important and best works of all time. Yet it seems that nearly no one has ever read it.
You are the second person to have misunderstood my drift. I was obviously obtuse. Sorry about that. If you read on, you'll see a clarification of what I actually meant.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

User avatar
cronus
Black Market Analyst
Posts: 18122
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:09 pm
About me: Illis quos amo deserviam
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: UK anti-Muslim hate crime soars, police figures show

Post by cronus » Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:26 pm

Ultimately the population dynamics, cultural topography and coming economic catastrophe may have already sealed the fate for the Muslims in the UK. :coffee:
What will the world be like after its ruler is removed?

Seth
GrandMaster Zen Troll
Posts: 22077
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:02 am
Contact:

Re: UK anti-Muslim hate crime soars, police figures show

Post by Seth » Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:11 pm

rEvolutionist wrote:Most muslims do, Seth. The one's who don't, though, are definitely a problem. Seems to me that the UK is heading for more religious problems in this regard in the future. Religion really does poison everything.
Certainly some religious groupthink does. But then again so does some irreligious groupthink.

As I said, it's not about thought or belief, it's about actions. I can't agree, for example, that Buddhism "poisons everything."
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests