The Libertarian "State"

[Blind groper]

OK Seth

Tell me of an existing or historical society you consider to be libertarian, and we can take a look at it, and decide what its characteristics are and what, if anything, it achieved.

You once implied that the old American west was libertarian. Well, the 19th century in the USA had a murder rate of 25 per 100,000 people per year, versus 4.3 for the USA today, and 0.9 for my country. If that was libertarian, it obviously left much to be desired.

[Seth]

OK Seth

Tell me of an existing or historical society you consider to be libertarian, and we can take a look at it, and decide what its characteristics are and what, if anything, it achieved.

How about you tell me of an existing society and I'll tell you why it either is or is not Libertarian in nature?

You once implied that the old American west was libertarian. Well, the 19th century in the USA had a murder rate of 25 per 100,000 people per year, versus 4.3 for the USA today, and 0.9 for my country. If that was libertarian, it obviously left much to be desired.

So what? The murder rate has nothing whatever to do with Libertarianism or Libertarian principles which absolutely forbid murder. Criminals exist in every culture so your argument is a red herring.

[Tyrannical]

Now what would be really interesting if they could correct for medical advances. I bet gun shot victims were far more likely to die in 1900 then today.

Given this anecdotal statement I googled, the 1990 murder rate should have fallen compared to today 30-40% due to medical advances alone. The 1900 murder rate would be substantially below today's value if they had the medical advances we have today.

Over the last 20 years, the chances that a person will survive a critical gunshot wound have increased substantially, perhaps by around 30 to 40 percent, said Dr. Thomas Scalea, professor of surgery at the University of Maryland Medical Center's R Adams Cowley Shock Trauma Center, who has treated thousands of patients with gunshot wounds over his three-decade career.

Oh, and look at the sharp jump in the murder rate starting around 1964 despite steady medical advances Nice steady down trend starting about 18 years after abortion was legalized too

[Blind groper]

How about you tell me of an existing society and I'll tell you why it either is or is not Libertarian in nature?

In other words, you have no data.

I thought so.

[JimC]

How about you tell me of an existing society and I'll tell you why it either is or is not Libertarian in nature?

In other words, you have no data.

I thought so.

I doubt any existing society would meet the requirements...

Libertarianism remains an oddball "utopian" fantasy...

[Tyrannical]

Liberty isn't a black and white concept, and to slip in a math joke their are degrees of freedom. Though some restraint is necessary, the more government restraint there is the less free you are. The more a government is funded through taxes, the more the government is able to restrain you.

[Blind groper]

I do not think anyone here is advocating slavery. Freedom is an important ideal for any society. However, what I find weird is the obsession with freedom to the exclusion of almost anything else.

A society worth living in will work towards achieving many values for its people. Freedom is one, but so is equality, friendship, security, fairness, prosperity and safety from violent criminals.

As I always say, it is balance. Extremist focus on one quality to the exclusion of others is basically insane.

[Seth]

I do not think anyone here is advocating slavery. Freedom is an important ideal for any society. However, what I find weird is the obsession with freedom to the exclusion of almost anything else.

You find it weird because it's complete figment of your fevered and ignorant imagination.

A society worth living in will work towards achieving many values for its people. Freedom is one, but so is equality, friendship, security, fairness, prosperity and safety from violent criminals.

And Libertarianism supports all of those ideals. It just differ in how they should be achieved.

As I always say, it is balance. Extremist focus on one quality to the exclusion of others is basically insane.

Well, that accurately describes your mendacious and ignorant characterization of Libertarianism, so I'd have to agree.

[Jason]

Freedom is a concept realized in individual conception and action (or inaction). That's the problem right there. Freedom can only exist in a system with a population of 1 or 0.

Adjectives negate freedom -> 'relative freedom' is an oxymoron. 'Liber'tarianism is fail. The common conception of freedom is fail. Only idiots and fools believe in 'freedom' as 'absolute liberty'. The self-deluded and machiavellian trade with it. Libertarianism offers one thing to the politikos: the opportunity of chaos. It's political jizz in the cunt of civilization fathering the rise of tyranny in the subjegation and/or subversion of individual will. Utter nonsensical garbage. Seth.

[Seth]

Freedom is a concept realized in individual conception and action (or inaction). That's the problem right there. Freedom can only exist in a system with a population of 1 or 0.

Adjectives negate freedom -> 'relative freedom' is an oxymoron. 'Liber'tarianism is fail. The common conception of freedom is fail. Only idiots and fools believe in 'freedom' as 'absolute liberty'. The self-deluded and machiavellian trade with it. Libertarianism offers one thing to the politikos: the opportunity of chaos. It's political jizz in the cunt of civilization fathering the rise of tyranny in the subjegation and/or subversion of individual will. Utter nonsensical garbage. Seth.

Yes, your sophistic pettifoggery is indeed utter nonsensical garbage. You're the only one mentioning "absolute liberty" which makes your whole statement nothing but a strawman.

[Jason]

Huh? I think your reading comprehension skills need work.

Sophistical is what Libertarianism is. So is the struggle for 'liberty'. It's a fog in small minds and a tool to misdirect them for larger minds. Tyranny of the one or the many is still tyranny. Libertarianism opposed to tyranny is just icing.

[Seth]

Huh? I think your reading comprehension skills need work.

Sophistical is what Libertarianism is. So is the struggle for 'liberty'. It's a fog in small minds and a tool to misdirect them for larger minds. Tyranny of the one or the many is still tyranny. Libertarianism opposed to tyranny is just icing.

Your ignorance is showing again....

[Jason]

Of course I would be ignorant to a true believer. ;-)

[pErvinalia]

I wonder how Seth deals with the fact that I've spent a good couple of hours arguing against a Marxist tonight? How does his dichotomous world view handle that?!

[JimC]

I wonder how Seth deals with the fact that I've spent a good couple of hours arguing against a Marxist tonight? How does his dichotomous world view handle that?!

"Fella, you don't need to argue with varmints like those, just fill 'em plumb full of lead"