Is trust the basis of friendship?

[CJ]

does that mean that there are people who you know only on here, never met them face to face, that you could call a friend?
can you know someone without reading there facial expressions?

Yes ryokan/Marmaduke would be one, Trinity, Desain, JasonK, FIO would be others to varying degrees. Others I have now phoned, Skyped (seen and heard) and a few I have met. One meeting ended in complete disaster but I still consider them a friend and they say the same about me. A number of people I have met in real life I have been very pleasantly surprised by, yourself for one, lensman, MasterBaker, LordPasternack, mrenutt4/Feck, and others.

The inflection in a person's voice or a look in their eye can reinforce or degrade a relationship, so far it has proved to be the case that the friends I have made in forum land have transferred to real life. It is also true to say that one person I was not keen on in forum world turned out to be a right prick in real life, so 'friendy' sense does appear to work reasonably well through the written word.

However for me the really interesting thing is the fact that I have made friends in RL through RDF/TAF and RATs that I doubt I would have ever had the opportunity to. Not just because of physical distance but the nature of these forums have brought me into communication with a group of people who's world view is sufficiently similar to mine that I feel comfortable in their presence almost immediately, and that comfort and proximity has allowed me to approach people more than I would have done in RL and in most cases developed acquaintances which in some case have gone on to be strong friendships.

This brings me back to the issue of trust and the exchange of secrets and intimate disclosure. As physical contact is ruled out by the nature of the forum world disclosure of intimate thoughts is the most significant route available to us in building friendships (and empathy comes in here in knowing what to disclose and how to react to disclosures). Maybe here without physical reinforcement trust is the next best tool?

[The Curious Squid]

I like that Chris, I've never thought of it like that before but I think you're on to something.

This reminds me of the conversation I had with Pappa in Cardiff about how we tell each other things on these forums that even our closest real life friends don't know and so far that closeness has been carried over whenever we meet in real life because the associations are still there.

The comment you made about getting to develop friendships with people who you wouldn't normally gel with is accurate too, distance aside I doubt I'd ever have considered either Mike or yourself a friend if it wasn't for this community, we're very different and normally age would be a factor. I actually thought you were in your 20s for the first 2+ years I knew of you until we met in Leicester. It's interesting to note how not having the prejudices we usually employ in real life (appearance, age, sex) does make a difference.

[Achtland]

i have a weakness in trusting too much to soon.
and bad situations have arisen from that.
so i would say that i have to put my trust in people who i get on with for several encounters before i would call them my friends.
that being said i wouldn't call someone my friend unless i meet them face to face, no matter how much we talked on the phone or chatted on the net.
that maybe comes from not having always being good with the written word and being misunderstood when talking to people over the phone.
being here is helping with these issue though and maybe my view point will change with more of this 'free' therapy.

[The Curious Squid]

Would you say that any of us are friends other than Feck?

[CJ]

{snip}. It's interesting to note how not having the prejudices we usually employ in real life (appearance, age, sex) does make a difference.

I think this is so true. To be honest if I'd walked into a pub and seen Eddy without having got to know him here first I would have been more than a little awkward with him. That has taught me something about myself that I was not to pleased to learn, but glad that I did.

[Feck]

{snip}. It's interesting to note how not having the prejudices we usually employ in real life (appearance, age, sex) does make a difference.

I think this is so true. To be honest if I'd walked into a pub and seen Eddy without having got to know him here first I would have been more than a little awkward with him. That has taught me something about myself that I was not to pleased to learn, but glad that I did.

Yep there are some disadvantages to looking like a Troll Why do you think I am so adamant about the no photo's of Eddy on the net
I think the forum is good for building 'Trust' between different types of people .

[Achtland]

{snip}. It's interesting to note how not having the prejudices we usually employ in real life (appearance, age, sex) does make a difference.

I think this is so true. To be honest if I'd walked into a pub and seen Eddy without having got to know him here first I would have been more than a little awkward with him. That has taught me something about myself that I was not to pleased to learn, but glad that I did.

Yep there are some disadvantages to looking like a Troll Why do you think I am so adamant about the no photo's of Eddy on the net
I think the forum is good for building 'Trust' between different types of people .

+1

[JacksSmirkingRevenge]

So, which are the real 'us' then, I wonder? The ones typing in here or the ones you can touch....out there? I'd say I'm a very different person in each circumstance.
I think this is why I'm reluctant to meet other members......I'll be revealed as the tramp and misfit I am irl - whereas here I can hide behind whatever I choose to put up in front of me even if most people do know a lot of details about me.
That said, since most human communication is done visually, I think it would be difficult to get to know somebody properly without meeting them physically.

If you press me to say why I loved him, I can say no more than because he was he, and I was I.

Michel Eyquem de Montaigne.

[charlou]

What a fucking great thread! I can relate to just about everything that has been said. I think I'll post more ot when I'm completely sober as this is just a booze happy post of appreciation for being back here with you all.

[Hermit]

We have seen several definitions of trust earlier on in this thread, and some rather fuzzy notions of what constitutes friendship. As for the relationship between the two, that reminds me of the chicken and egg question. I'll go with Bella's take on the matter:

The trust develops secondarily once we've made a more superficial connection with someone based on common interests and personalities that jive well together. The crossing of that hurdle from acquaintance to true friend lies is in the demonstration of trust, of testing the waters incrementally and having favourable reactions.

[M]

Trust is a part of what makes a friendship but not the basis.
Trust can be broken by someone with good intent; for example the breaking of a confidence by person X if they are worried about person Y.
Friendship can be damaged, even destroyed by things other than trust. Hurt and anger can get out of control, even between good friends, maybe especially so. Time can make things better, but a serious fall out between friends will mean that the friendship is changed. In other cases the friendship is lost.
I think it is rare that the breaking of a friendship is wholly the fault of just one party.

[FBM]

I may be going about this friendship thing all backwards, judging by some of these posts. Seems to me that friendship can become the basis of trust, not the other way 'round. First I meet someone, and if they seem easy enough to get along with, I hang out with them a bit more and, over time, a bit more. Trust? I think that's the last thing to develop, for me, if it ever does. If I pick up the bar tab one night or treat for dinner, and the other person reciprocates within a reasonable time frame, I can feel a small step closer to trust. If the person's character isn't attentive or is a bit of a leech, I refrain from extending anything but the most superficial trust. This isn't only about money, though. It includes being discreet about personal stories, taking a friendly jibe in good humour and dishing it back out without being a , etc. Excessive attention-seeking behavior, alpha-males, braggarts and the like will never gain trust from me, even if we get along otherwise.

CJ, do you have any friends you would trust with your life? How about with, say $1,000. $10,000? To sleep over at your house while your wife is there, but you're out of town?

[CJ]

CJ, do you have any friends you would trust with your life? How about with, say $1,000. $10,000? To sleep over at your house while your wife is there, but you're out of town?

I suppose my best friend is my wife, which is very fortunate . Yes I do have friends who I have trusted with significant amounts of money. Yes I do have a friend who has taken my wife away with him for a few days. I'm sure nothing happened, but I wouldn't ask her anyway as it was her choice not to do anything, even if she had done something but still come back to me I wouldn't mind. Friends I would trust my life with? Can't answer that one really as I've never been in a position to consider it.

[CJ]

If there are many levels of trust, empathy and mutual need fulfilment, it could be that there are many levels and types/styles of friendship? I feel that FBM's comment is true that acquaintance precedes friendship and the change from one to the other is a positive reinforcement cycle.

[The Curious Squid]

I may be going about this friendship thing all backwards, judging by some of these posts. Seems to me that friendship can become the basis of trust, not the other way 'round. First I meet someone, and if they seem easy enough to get along with, I hang out with them a bit more and, over time, a bit more. Trust? I think that's the last thing to develop, for me, if it ever does. If I pick up the bar tab one night or treat for dinner, and the other person reciprocates within a reasonable time frame, I can feel a small step closer to trust. If the person's character isn't attentive or is a bit of a leech, I refrain from extending anything but the most superficial trust. This isn't only about money, though. It includes being discreet about personal stories, taking a friendly jibe in good humour and dishing it back out without being a , etc. Excessive attention-seeking behavior, alpha-males, braggarts and the like will never gain trust from me, even if we get along otherwise.

CJ, do you have any friends you would trust with your life? How about with, say $1,000. $10,000? To sleep over at your house while your wife is there, but you're out of town?

Maybe I am too trusting but I generally trust people until they show they don't deserve it, I may be lucky but so far because there haven't been many occasions in my life where it's come back to bite me on the arse.